Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Inviting non-Jewish friend to shul
Previous  1  2  3  4  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 8:41 pm
I don't see how she will understand anything from the davening in shul, regardless of her skincolor or mode of dress.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 8:50 pm
chocolate moose wrote:
I don't see how she will understand anything from the davening in shul, regardless of her skincolor or mode of dress.


The issue is that she NEEDS to go to a synagogue service or else it does not count. She can come to us and stay at our house as we do a little service, but then she wasted a 12 hr trip (each way, with an active boy in the car) but she wont be able to count that for her paper.
She WILL go to a shul-the only issue is making sure she goes to a shul thats a) she will feel more comfortable in (for her own modesty reasons) and b) is more traditional in Judaism.

Since DH never makes it to shul @ night, I would probably give her a run down of shema and shemoneh esrei, as well as the what to expect, then the next day go for leining (she can follow along in English), then go out for the kiddie davening.

Again, the issue is that she NEEDS to go to a service somewhere, the question is if people are going to cause her problems if she comes to my shul
Back to top

chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 9:12 pm
How about she listen in on the phone to a weekday mincha ?
Back to top

Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 9:21 pm
You still haven't answered whether she'll be wearing a hijab or not. For the people in shul that will probably make the difference, otherwise, she could easily be a Jew....
Back to top

Atali




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 9:44 pm
Perhaps she could wear a tichel and a different type of scarf around the neck in place of a hijab (if she wears one)? That way she will cover all that she needs to cover but not make anyone in shul uncomfortable.
Back to top

Chocoholic




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 9:52 pm
chocolate moose wrote:
How about she listen in on the phone to a weekday mincha ?


Even though she might not understand a service, lots of people like to visit a shul, on a holidy or shabbes, a weekday minchah service won't do it.

Come one gals, what's the big deal, be nice to her, let her experience a service, show her the warmth of yiddishkeit and get it over with... or get over yourselves... I dont even know why this is worth a topic on Imamother.
Back to top

chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 10:19 pm
I don't find a Shabbosdike Shachris very .. warm. the inyan is davening, not chinuch or hachnosses orchim, or anything else.

A shul is not her place; regardless of what credits she needs for her college class.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 10:19 pm
Mimisinger wrote:
You still haven't answered whether she'll be wearing a hijab or not. For the people in shul that will probably make the difference, otherwise, she could easily be a Jew....


I thought I had made that clear. She is a modest Muslim. She would not go out without a hijab, just as anyone on this board would not go out without a sheitel/tichel/snood/hat/etc.

When I asked her, she said she could tie her hijab back like a tichel, and then wear a shawl to cover her neck, but I feel it would be inappropriate to hide who she is. Its not like shes coming in with a large cross around her neck- a hijab is not a religious symbol, it is just the way one religion accepts modesty upon themselves.
Back to top

dee's mommy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 10:39 pm
I seem to understand that anyone who wants to come to a shul, to daven (or visit, attend a simcha or whatever) can. As long as your friend is respectful, I don't think it's a problem. (And oh, yes, I do agree that she should also see Judaism in the home. Perhaps a Shabbos meal would be nice.)

Why shouldn't she wear her hijab? I don't think she should have to hide who she is. (And as my husband said, as he was looking over my shoulder "at least she will be covering her hair."

Yes, she will get stares, questions and so forth. That's only natural. So introduce her politely to your friends, and perhaps even explain her purpose. There is no reason why she shouldn't receive a warm welcome.
Back to top

chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 10:51 pm
dee's mommy wrote:
I seem to understand that anyone who wants to come to a shul, to daven (or visit, attend a simcha or whatever) can.


Where is that understanding from ?
Back to top

Chocoholic




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 10:53 pm
chocolate moose wrote:
I don't find a Shabbosdike Shachris very .. warm. the inyan is davening, not chinuch or hachnosses orchim, or anything else.

A shul is not her place; regardless of what credits she needs for her college class.


Depends on where you go.... and I see nothing wrong with a respectful one time visitor... I have invited and will keep inviting people who are sincerely interested in attending a shabbos shul service... Why not?

And by the way, I dont think there is a prohibation for noachides to daven in shuls.... get over yourself
Back to top

Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 10:58 pm
amother wrote:
Mimisinger wrote:
You still haven't answered whether she'll be wearing a hijab or not. For the people in shul that will probably make the difference, otherwise, she could easily be a Jew....


I thought I had made that clear. She is a modest Muslim. She would not go out without a hijab, just as anyone on this board would not go out without a sheitel/tichel/snood/hat/etc.

When I asked her, she said she could tie her hijab back like a tichel, and then wear a shawl to cover her neck, but I feel it would be inappropriate to hide who she is. Its not like shes coming in with a large cross around her neck- a hijab is not a religious symbol, it is just the way one religion accepts modesty upon themselves.


I guess it just wasn't clear to me. I'm not saying that she should ch'v take off her hijab, but without it, no one would blink (hopefully). With that, it's an in-your-face, symbol of her being different. As I said, without it, she would blend in.

For me, I wouldn't care, especially if it would be clear that she would be with you.

Another poster, said that shuls are open for anyone to come in. But shul is not a museum. People do not necessarily want to be the subject of scrutiny, or even observation. I understand that this is for her paper, and I would first ask the Rav as you said you would and then get his take on it and how he thinks the congregation would react.

I think about the other thread that someone posted about some chassidish paper and if it's authentic/real?

Any paper, that is being written about me/my people by an outsider, makes me nervous, esp. if they're given access. otoh, I think it's really valuable for other cultures to learn from each other, esp. muslims and Jews as that's the only way for any sort of peace to happen.
Back to top

Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 11:00 pm
Chocoholic wrote:
chocolate moose wrote:
I don't find a Shabbosdike Shachris very .. warm. the inyan is davening, not chinuch or hachnosses orchim, or anything else.

A shul is not her place; regardless of what credits she needs for her college class.


Depends on where you go.... and I see nothing wrong with a respectful one time visitor... I have invited and will keep inviting people who are sincerely interested in attending a shabbos shul service... Why not?

And by the way, I dont think there is a prohibation for noachides to daven in shuls.... get over yourself


Why do you keep writing "get over yourselves?" What does that even mean? People have opinions and they're voicing them.
Back to top

Chocoholic




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 11:06 pm
Get over yourself en move on... ok... you think its shlecht to invite a non jew to shul, fine, but there is nothing inherently wrong with it and many of us do it at some point in our lives.. live and let live.... I'm all for voincing opinions, another thing is having a strong opinion and obnoxiously voicing it over and over again as if it were a din..
Back to top

dee's mommy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 11:17 pm
[quote="chocolate moose"][quote="dee's mommy"]I seem to understand that anyone who wants to come to a shul, to daven (or visit, attend a simcha or whatever) can.
[/quote]

Where is that understanding from ?[/quote]

One of my rebbetzins mentioned it at one time. I seem to remember the rabbi of my previous shul mention something about it being a welcoming place for anyone who wants to daven. As in, it is a "House of G-d." G'd is for everyone to pray to. (I'm paraphrasing a bit here. He said this quite a few years ago, so my memory is not as sharp on this matter.)

I suppose my personal take on this is that if a non- Jew wants to come into a shul for whatever reason, (and there are several possibilities) as long as they are respectful, I just don't have a problem with that. Maybe they were invited to a simcha. Maybe they are searching. Maybe they are curious. And yes, maybe they are "taking notes."

Some here mentioned that they are uncomfortable with being researched, and of being portrayed inaccurately. Of course one visit to a shul will not give anyone a clear and accurate picture. Of course their research paper is not going to give a true picture of Jewish life, especially from an outsider's perspective. The fact is, these types of University classes exist, and there will be researchers visiting from time to time. Perhaps this is our opportunity to make a Kiddush Hashem.
Back to top

Starhavah




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 11:39 pm
I would not have a problem either way. I would suggest that she wears a snood rather than a hijab to "fit in" more
Back to top

Ima2NYM_LTR




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 18 2010, 11:42 pm
starhaven-
I think the issue is more that Muslimahs must also cover their neck. So snood or tichel doesnt make a difference, she would still have to work on the neck issue
Back to top

freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2010, 12:13 am
A high turtleneck (I assume you are in America and it is COLD where you are) will take the place of the Hijab neck covering and a long open kerchief will cover everything else in the back.

OP, I wouldn't negate the impact that someone in a hijab would have on your congregation if they walk in. It is not a neutral dress these days, unfortunately, although to compare it to a cross is a bit different. A cross is small, you don't really notice it that much while a hijab? Shouts to high heaven welcome to 9/11 ...again, unfortunately. So maybe gently suggest that it pays to fit in otherwise she won't get the real feeling of prayer service but rather stare service...
Back to top

imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2010, 6:11 am
amother wrote:
ora_43 wrote:
It would depend on a lot of things. Size of the shul, location of the shul, and how clear it'll be that she's just watching and not taking part.

I'd be uncomfortable with someone just sitting and staring. It's nice to feel unnoticed while praying, at least for me.

But if she dresses somewhat like everyone else and stands and sits at more or less the same time, it'd be acceptable, at least in the shuls I've been to.

I wouldn't recommend taking her to an entire service though. Like previous posters said, it is in Hebrew, how interesting can it be for her?


OP again!!

yes, she will be dressed modest Very Happy
We live OOT in a very BT/convert/out of the box community. We are MO.

Id probably take her in for a bit of leining, and a bit of musaf, but besides that, just chat with the other women or go to the kiddie minyan.

And biggest thing for her paper on Judaism is that she see Judaism in the home, since that is the real center of Jewish life.


I don't think it will be a problem, if your community has many BTs and converts. Such people usually have plenty non-Jewish firends themselves. Your community sounds like they are open-minded people who would totally relate to someone making a comparative research about religions, especially if she is a religious and modest person herself. If you have security in the shul, I guess she just needs to apply beforehands to be let in.
To those who are anxious about what she will write in her paper, think about what would she write if they didn't let her in?? How intolerant and closed Jews are? Especially the orthodox/MO ones?
Back to top

Besiyata Dishmaya




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 19 2010, 6:44 am
non jews were permitted to go into the Bais Hamikdash and even their karbonos were accepted. Why shouldn't non-Jews be permitted to go to shul? As long as they respect the shul and come dressed modestly and appropriate for shul it should be fine. For a Xtian to go to shul wearing a tzeilem (a cross) would definitely not be permitted, but a hijab could not be a problem. However, people might not feel comfortable around them because they might be scared. Here in Israel lately I noticed some Jews (I think they are, at least) walking on the streets and into shul wearing a hijab. When I first saw it, I couldn’t daven and was just waiting for the bomb to explode.

Of course she should be told that if she goes to shul on Shabbos, she should not bring her pocketbook, cellphone and may not do any writing or taking pictures.

Also, she will not be able to take her son with her to the women’s section if he’s already a teenager.
Back to top
Page 2 of 4 Previous  1  2  3  4  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Jewish library Brooklyn 1 Yesterday at 2:24 pm View last post
Dress for friend's wedding
by amother
0 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:16 pm View last post
Gown gemach for friend/cousin/nieces wedding
by amother
3 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 11:10 am View last post
Home situation of DD's friend
by amother
39 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 10:04 am View last post
Any way to make a non lace look very natural?
by amother
10 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 7:46 pm View last post