Would you eat in a home where they eat soft matza?

SplitPea

Fri, Mar 12 2010, 7:57 am

We would like to have guest for the sedar or other days of pesach (we are sephardi) typically we ear soft matza all pesach long. Regular matza just gives me so many stomach issues. I would totally forgo the rice and beans for a pesach to be able to have guest but do you think anyone would be willing to come here and eat in our home when we have soft matza. (we would 100% buy normal hand shmura for our guest) Just trying to figure out if we should give up on inviting people over Sad

shalhevet

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 1:47 pm

Marion and FS I'm surprised you haven't seen them advertised. They are sold privately with mehadrin Sephardi hechsherim and, as I understand, look and taste rather like pitta. They keep them frozen and take out of the freezer to use.

Ashkenazim have a gezeira for hundreds of years that our matza must be crisp and thin, so it's a no-no.

I actually asked my dh if I could try some of a friend's AFTER Pesach and he didn't actually ask, but seemed to think it would be a real problem for Ashkenazim, even after Pesach.

Sunny, IME, whenever people ask Sephardi rabbonim about Ashkenazi minhagim/ halachos, they are always extremely meikel - which makes sense of course, to them it's not a problem at all. An Ashkenazi really has to ask their own rov (and Ashkenazim use separate keilim for kitnios in their own homes even if their is a need for a baby etc, so it's not so simple.)

Tamiri

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 4:34 pm

Personally I think (I know that no one asked) this whole Pesach thing is out of hand. Chumra upon chumra and minhag upon minhag. Why in the WORLD shouldn't we be united in our ways? I can't imagine that the original Pesach celebrators ate crispy matza with fork holes in it. The matzot were probably originally like the soft ones Teimanim (or Sfardim) eat. Why should what different eidot do prevent us from celebrating together? The whole thing causes more antagonism and hardship (for us Ashkenazim) than anything else in these days of (Jewish) globalization. Going shopping in EY is crazy because of kitniyot. We have to shell out so much more because of Ashkenazik preferences for no kitniyot oil, mayo, margarine etc. And kitnoyot ARE NOT chametz at all. It's totally insane and the OPs question makes me sad.
Pesach should be about celebrating our common denomonators, not our differences.
Hrmph.

freidasima

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 4:35 pm

Shalhevet what is this gezera based on? You know that today there are a lot of MO rabbonim who say privately that it is just fine to use kitniyos based products and some who say that the whole so called "gezero" of kitniyos was something applicable for a certain time and today in EY has no real basis. There was even a machon whose rabbonim came out with this publically two or three years ago. So what's the problem with this matzo? If it is real matzo, no kitniyos, no eggs, then just because it's made differently? It's like the whole hullabaloo that matzo has to be round, you know that when they came out with machine made square matzo there were many rabbonim who said that it is ossur! That the minhog was ONLY for round matzo of a certain type...and that sure changed...so if this isn't kitniyos what's the problem?

Rodent

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 4:37 pm

We would come if we were local! Of course we're also sepharadi and love soft matza which we can't get here. I've been at the home of a litvish rabbi in NY where some sepharadi guests brought soft matza and it wasn't a problem (asked ahead I think). Have you asked people?

We're not in a Jewish area really so guests are generally out. The one family we would invite are fairly extreme on Pesah (I don't know all the stuff they follow but I know her father doesn't eat matza on Pesah. You read that right! He has the bare minimum at a seder over something that he throws away, don't know what he does at other yom tov meals but I presume there's no matza for them from what he told my husband).

As Shalhevet said, they look like pita but there is no pocket in the middle and they're much more dense. And freezing is a must, they go mouldy as my husband found out the hard way the first time he bought them. I don't understand though, why would soft matza be an issue even AFTER Pesah?

ETA - Tamiri, I totally agree, it has become ridiculous.

shalhevet

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 4:52 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Why is being united better than celebrating our different cultures?

If you shop mehadrin it's not insane at all - the places I go have a couple of separate shelves with KLP kitnios and all the rest is without. I didn't notice feeling any antagonism or hardship by keeping the same gezeiros my family has kept for the last millenium. Actually one of my very best friends is Sephardic and if I go there on Pesach I just eat fruit - so what? I don't feel oppressed and nor does she.

FS, the gezera is because there is great importance to bake the matzos very quickly without any possibility of air holes etc. That's why our matzos are thin, crispy and with holes. You two make it sound like it's some super-chumra out of thin air, instead of a fear for chometz. Much more serious than kitnios, actually. For those who always had soft matzos, that's their massoret and zehu.

The machine/ hand-made matzo machlokes isn't at all simple and still hasn't been laid to rest. It's nothing to do with the shape, of course. It's to do if the machines are good enough (and in the beginning they weren't as good as they are today), whether they are better than hand-baking (as some rabbonim pasken today), and whether they are considered lishma for leil haseder.

I have no idea why you think the kitnios gezeira has no real basis (and most MO rabbis don't even hold that). The main reasons still apply. You can still make flour from corn or rice, you still buy a packet of lentils and find a grain of barley inside. Apart from which a gezeira is a gezeira.

Rodent

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 5:52 pm

And if you find a piece of barley you discard it. It's really not that hard, seriously (and for the record I have never had such an issue, it's not common at all in my experience. Other foreign matter like husks or small stones I have had though). It's not wet, it's not hametz! And quite frankly even if it WERE wet, before Pesah you have made it batel anyway so it's irrelevant.

If potatoes had been discovered when all of these restrictions were being laid they also would have been forbidden because of the many uses they can have. I'm surprised noone has taken THAT prohibition upon themselves....

Why is being united better? Because we are one people with one mission in life. I have no problem with people doing things differently but if you can't even see why being united is a better ideal then we're all wasting our time. And people wonder why the mashiah isn't here yet...

Tova

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 7:34 pm

For the first year ever, I even saw the soft matzos advertised here (OOT in the US). Very expensive though, even compared to regular hand matza.

My BIL always joked that the karban Pesach was like shwarma in lafa.

shalhevet, I'm also curious why your husband would think it's problematic to eat such matza after Pesach.

Another question - my husband holds that the minhag not to eat matza after R"C Nissan only applies to Kosher for Pesach matza and not chametz matza. Growing up we didn't eat any matza, but I am very happy to abide by my husband's hanhaga (I eat a piece of whole wheat matza at each Shabbos meal; better for my diet than challah!). Is anyone noheg similarly?

Mommy3.5

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 11:20 pm

Raisin wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I actually asked my dh if I could try some of a friend's AFTER Pesach and he didn't actually ask, but seemed to think it would be a real problem for Ashkenazim, even after Pesach.

why in the world?????

Yes, I'd like to know if that means you would not eat gebructs cake a neighbor had leftover from pesach. Sefardim do not eat chometz, that our food would be inedible after pesach....

Split pea, I would not be insulted by people not eating at my house on pesach, My own parents won't, Unless they know I cooked their food befoe I cooked any gebructs or kitniyot.

Secondly, there are most likely other sefardic families that would happily eat by you, but ashkenazim wont. pesach is a holiday were chumra;s are commended, and most people do not eat at others homes, whether its gebucts, soft matzah or kitniyot. Its not meant to hurt or insult you. Try to get invited out, just eat the minimum amount of matzah, and eat the soft ones at home.

Mommy3.5

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 11:26 pm

Rodent wrote:

The chayei Adam banned potatoes due to his belief that they were kitniyot. There are heated debates on the status of potatoes.

Mommy3.5

Sat, Mar 13 2010, 11:30 pm

[quote="Tova"]For the first year ever, I even saw the soft matzos advertised here (OOT in the US). Very expensive though, even compared to regular hand matza.

My BIL always joked that the karban Pesach was like shwarma in lafa.

shalhevet, I'm also curious why your husband would think it's problematic to eat such matza after Pesach.

Another question - my husband holds that the minhag not to eat matza after R"C Nissan only applies to Kosher for Pesach matza and not chametz matza. Growing up we didn't eat any matza, but I am very happy to abide by my husband's hanhaga (I eat a piece of whole wheat matza at each Shabbos meal; better for my diet than challah!). Is anyone noheg similarly?[/quote]

Actually, they are much cheaper. The hand shmura here is 21-22 dollars a lb. the soft masot, were advertised for 13 a lb. and 15 after a certain date.

Your BIL is most likely picturing it just right.

The actual halacha is no matza on erev pesach, Two weeks, and 30 days , is all minhag.