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The importance of vaccines!
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Secbeb




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 6:15 pm
I was recently in a "heated" discussion with some women about vaccines for children (with a very deceptively controversial title) when it was brought to my attention that it was in the natural parenting section and you could only post there to support, not debate. I therefore deleted all my posts (with some scolding from some posters for actually posting there at all) but I realized that I don't think that it's right that vaccines should only be discussed as if its a given that they are bad (this might lead some women who aren't actually familiar with both sides to decide not to vaccinate in their ignorance). So I am starting this thread because I feel very strongly that vaccines are very beneficial to society. I know that there is an old thread about vaccines that wasn't under natural parenting, but I find whenever I add to old threads, people dismiss looking at them because they are old so I don't end up getting any feedback. So feel free to discuss vaccines here without fear of being in the wrong place to discuss them.
BTW I am completely for immunizing my children, your children and all children who I'd rather see possibly irritated for a day than suffer the agony of being paralyzed by polio, or an unborn baby having CRS [major birth defects like blindness, deafness, mental retardation, heart defects and lots of other horrible things] because the unvaccinated mother had rubella during the pregnancy etc
I do understand why some people choose to skip the chicken pox vaccine (I had chicken pox at 7 and I'm okay [thank G-d] with a couple of extra chicken pox scars but it is dangerous for elderly people to get) the hepatitis B vaccine (hey - if you work in the health field, you should get it - but its not an airborne disease) but otherwise DPT and MMR are soooo important.
I have lots more to say, to debate to argue with people claiming that polio is synonymous with aseptic meningitis (totally not!!! Polio can cause aseptic meningitis but aseptic meningitis can also be caused by HIV, herpes, Flus - type A & B, Epstein-Barr virus [kissing disease] many types of bacteria, drugs etc. Check out this link from emedicine under WebMD
http://www.emedicine.com/NEURO/topic697.htm ) but I can't post it all in the first post, so as it comes up, I can reply. I'm sure I will hear from some of you who are virulently against vaccines. I welcome the debate, because this is and should be a topic of debate.
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mimsy7420




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 6:29 pm
Well what I was always wondering was this. Lets say a man from some third world country comes to visit the States. He was never vaccinated for anything and is carrying a disease in him, that everyone here is vaccinated against. He uses a public toilet and goes on his way. Then a mother brings her little unvaccinated child and the child uses the same toilet, and contracts the disease. Since most children are vaccinated these days, it would not have been a problem for them - but how can these parents have put their child at such risk. Is it not their duty to give the child as much immunity to these diseases as possible??
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Secbeb




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 6:32 pm
only1 wrote:
Well what I was always wondering was this. Lets say a man from some third world country comes to visit the States. He was never vaccinated for anything and is carrying a disease in him, that everyone here is vaccinated against. He uses a public toilet and goes on his way. Then a mother brings her little unvaccinated child and the child uses the same toilet, and contracts the disease. Since most children are vaccinated these days, it would not have been a problem for them - but how can these parents have put their child at such risk. Is it not their duty to give the child as much immunity to these diseases as possible??


If he was actually ill, all he would have to do is sneeze. . .and the unvaccinated child has it. . he touches a doorknob - and so does the unvaccinated child. . and the child is infected. Vaccinated people can carry the disease to the unvaccinated child, they themselves completely unaffected. .. anf the unvaccinated child contracts the disease.
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mimsy7420




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 6:38 pm
I see that a big reason that some parents don't vaccine their kids is because the they think the vaccinations make the child sick - like frequent ear infections, etc.
But what I don't understand is how a few ear infections compare to Polio or other diseases. Like it seems worth the risk. Furthermore, if they did real scientific studies to show that unvaccinated kids have a "healthier" childhood then vaccinated ones - then maybe more people would take a second to think about it. So is there such a study? And if there is then why don't all doctors know about it. And I don't want any "conspiracy theory" answers.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 6:39 pm
what bothers me is that many of these posters never bring any peer reviewed studies- it is just this one doctor's opinion or another's. You can find a doctor to say almost anything
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imaamy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 6:50 pm
Thank you for starting the thread. It will be interesting if any strongly anti-vaxers join this thread because they are opposed to voices of science in their thread!
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aspring




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 7:06 pm
Quote:
I see that a big reason that some parents don't vaccine their kids is because the they think the vaccinations make the child sick - like frequent ear infections, etc.
But what I don't understand is how a few ear infections compare to Polio or other diseases. Like it seems worth the risk.


Frequent ear infections, etc. is not what scares parents off from vaccinations. Take the time, go to the library, take out a few books call a few alternative or holistic Drs. and do the research and then make your decision, but to assume that vaccinating your children is the right thing to do because most people do it is making an uninformed decision.


Last edited by aspring on Thu, Jun 15 2006, 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aspring




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 7:08 pm
Quote:
I see that a big reason that some parents don't vaccine their kids is because the they think the vaccinations make the child sick - like frequent ear infections, etc.
But what I don't understand is how a few ear infections compare to Polio or other diseases. Like it seems worth the risk.


Frequent ear infections, etc. is not what scares parents off from vaccinations. Take the time, go to the library, take out a few books call a few alternative or holistic Drs. and do the research and then make your decision, but to assume that vaccinating your children is the right thing to do because most people do it is making an uninformed decision.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 7:10 pm
I think if you are FOR vaccines, or AGAINST vaccines, you are probably wrong.
Each vaccine needs to be evaluated individually. Varicellla does not equal polio does not equal measles does not equal tetanus etc.
And while you may not want to hear conspiracy theories, there are very strong economic and political forces at work.
Some vaccines are good, some are bad, some are given on a good schedule, some can be delayed etc.
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mimsy7420




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 7:14 pm
aspring wrote:
Quote:
I see that a big reason that some parents don't vaccine their kids is because the they think the vaccinations make the child sick - like frequent ear infections, etc.
But what I don't understand is how a few ear infections compare to Polio or other diseases. Like it seems worth the risk.


Frequent ear infections, etc. is not what scares parents off from vaccinations. Take the time, go to the library, take out a few books call a few alternative or holistic Drs. and do the research and then make your decision, but to assume that vaccinating your children is the right thing to do because most people do it is making an uninformed decision.


Well I don't think most people do it because that's just what everyone else does - but more because their doctor tells them to. And most people trust their doctor.
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aspring




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 7:33 pm
Maybe when your Dr. tells you to do something you shouldnt take it as Torah MeSinai. You should say thank you and Ill get back to you, after you do your own research.
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mimsy7420




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 7:41 pm
aspring wrote:
Maybe when your Dr. tells you to do something you shouldnt take it as Torah MeSinai. You should say thank you and Ill get back to you, after you do your own research.


But I don't think I'm smarter then my Dr. - I never went to medical school. And all the research in the world I could do- would not compare to the years he spent in medical school.
And I would trust my Dr with my life - and I do take whatever he tells me as Torah Mesinai. (and everyone else who uses this doctor does too)

So back to my other question - is there a proper medical study that shows that unvaccinated children are "healthier" then vaccinated children.
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Secbeb




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 8:00 pm
Quote:
Maybe when your Dr. tells you to do something you shouldnt take it as Torah MeSinai. You should say thank you and Ill get back to you, after you do your own research.


Of course its not Torah Mesinai. Medicine is always changing, improving. . many people get second opinions all the time with medical diagnoses, but the majority of doctors recommend vaccinations and I leave it up to people who decide not to vaccinate to prove me wrong.

Quote:
Each vaccine needs to be evaluated individually. Varicellla does not equal polio does not equal measles does not equal tetanus etc.


I agree with this, but if someone would ask me if I was pro or anti vaccines, I would say pro.

Quote:
what bothers me is that many of these posters never bring any peer reviewed studies- it is just this one doctor's opinion or another's. You can find a doctor to say almost anything


Most doctors do say to vaccinate your children. These aren't rogue doctors going against the medical communal advice. It is not just one doctor's opinion or another. . .
[/quote]
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imaamy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 8:35 pm
Wow, right under my post about whether anti-vaxers would enter the thread, two seemingly anti-vaxers posted, and one anon I think! Amazing.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 9:47 pm
Understandably,
those who vaccinate will strongly defend the view that vaccinating is good for their child(ren),
and those who don't vaccinate will strongly defend the view that vaccinating is not good for their (children).

It is human nature for one to defend one's decision. To defend the opposing view is hypocritical, of course. So naturally this is a heated debate, as each one aims to defend the rightness of her choice.

Would that we all respect each other's position at least as much as we'd like our own position to be respected.

Have I clued you in as to which side of the fence I am...........?
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imaamy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 9:49 pm
I agree that respecting each side is called for. However, pro-vaxers were asked to leave the natural parenting section, but they can come to this new thread and state/defend how uninformed pro-vaxers are? Doesn't seem right. I am pro, but I do wish I hadn't rushed to the chicken pox vax which was new when my first born was 1, because now I fear he might get it worse when older. He did have a mild case a year or so ago anyway.
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Secbeb




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 15 2006, 11:30 pm
amother wrote:
Understandably,
those who vaccinate will strongly defend the view that vaccinating is good for their child(ren),
and those who don't vaccinate will strongly defend the view that vaccinating is not good for their (children).

It is human nature for one to defend one's decision. To defend the opposing view is hypocritical, of course. So naturally this is a heated debate, as each one aims to defend the rightness of her choice.

Would that we all respect each other's position at least as much as we'd like our own position to be respected.

Have I clued you in as to which side of the fence I am...........?


Not really Scratching Head I guess this is an area where I feel that I don't really have to "respect" the other position, because this is a health issue. I am not arguing opinions in the way that you prefer apples whereas I prefer oranges and my way is better than yours. I really believe that mothers who decide not to vaccinate their children put these children as well as little children who have not received the entire series of vaccinations in danger.

As I'm sure these women think I just follow whatever the doctor says and I don't question anything I'm told, so too I'm quite skeptical of the conspiracy theories that crop up in the natural parenting section regarding vaccinations.

I understand what you're saying that those firmly against vaccinations won't change their minds. But what about the new mothers or to-be mothers on this site that aren't familiar with the topic and check out the natural parenting forum wherechoosing not to vaccinate seems to be a given? I don't think that many people would only make their decisions based on a thread in one place but having seen some of the "interesting" reasoning and theories on there, I fear that they may get the wrong impression. I honestly feel that many of the things said in there are misleading and untrue, based on no scientific evidence at all. Thus I argue for the sake of the undecided.
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elisecohen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2006, 3:46 am
Just FYI-- (I will not be part of this debate because of the horrendous personal attacks I have received when I have tried to have a rational discussion on this topic) you should know that one reason that the other thread contains a lot of debate is because it did not START in the Natural Parenting section; it was moved there (I think from Children's Health) by the moderators after arguments began.
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imaamy




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2006, 4:52 am
I think the truth is that many people just don't believe in science. They think it is a conspiracy to make money.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jun 16 2006, 5:04 am
My brother and his wife and her whole family are very against vaccines. I never really understood why. I do know that it's making my mother crazy. She talks about it constantly and want his children vaccinated. I understand why we get vaccinated. But I am really clueless why people are against it. A cold or ear ache is nothing compared to polio. I wouldn't mind a calm explanation. I can't really ask my brother, because it's such a heated topic and I don't want to cause a fight.
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