the importance of vaccines!

lilacdreams

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:21 pm

I also had CP as a kid, and then 30 years later brought home a newborn to 2 kids who were in the midst of an outbreak, one after the other. My newborn never got it. She is 12 and still has never had it and has no antibodies - we checked. I will suggest to her to get vaxed if she hasn;t had it before her wedding.
Emes I don't know why you turned negative - we were debating it nicely, no? Why would you tell ppl to 'get out'?

EmesOrNT

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:23 pm

lilacdreams wrote:

It's an expression. In other words - it's difficult to have a discussion with an unarmed person. Someone who insists on using 30yr old science is unarmed. I can't have a discussion that way.

Hashem_Yaazor

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:25 pm

From my research, vaccinated mothers do not pass on that immunity.
Even worse....the immunity from the vaccine is usually worn off by the time the woman is pregnant and she's more susceptible to contracting the virus in her first trimester with disastrous results. With natural immunity from the virus itself, she doesn't have to be as concerned.

I have to say a lot of reading on this page is laughable if it wasn't so sad. Brainwashed cult members? Who does the research and who just goes with the tide? Where does the brainwashing come in?
Whatever.

lilacdreams

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:36 pm

emers sadly you are calling us names and getting all flustered for nothing. If you don't like thinking outside of the box then I guess you should not have come to this thread. I am not unarmed or in a cult. And actually I do vax some vaxes - just not all of them. I try to think what am I vaxing against? If it is a mild disease I try to think if the risk is worth it. Mumps, chicken pox and a few others are not serious illnesses, and then once my kids have had it they will be immune for ever - your kids won't be.

lilacdreams

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:38 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

exactly, which is why I plan on vaxing my 12 yr old for CP right before she gets married - and not now. Hopefully though she will get it and we wont have to vax her for that.

EmesOrNT

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:40 pm

lilacdreams wrote:

Um, hello, did you read the thread title???

amother

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 5:18 pm

lilacdreams wrote:

I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, since I am beyond sick of the arguing about it.
Those who are anti-vax will remain so...those who are pro-vax will also remains so.. so what is the point?

I DO want to comment on the bit about chicken pox not being a serious illness. That is a often repeated untruth.
I say untruth and not a "lie" because the people who say that do not do so with the intent of covering up the truth.

Chicken pox is a serious illness. I had chicken pox when I was 12 years old. This "not serious" illness landed me in hospital for weeks, unconcious for much of it, with meningitis and encephalitis with resulted in life-long effects.
I was a pretty normal kid when I went in, and I came out with a hearing loss, my vision impacted, and learning disabilities. As an adult, it has been told to me that I have lesions on my brain from the diseases that resulted in mood-swings and other problems that were misdiagnosed as bipolar disorder when I was 16 years old.

I am also at lifelong risk of shingles.

Chicken pox is not some benign illness or an inconvenient part of childhood. Neither is mumps or any other illness for that matter. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

EmesOrNT

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 5:24 pm

amother wrote:

lilacdreams wrote:

But hey, the chances of it happening to their kid are in their favor, right? So who cares if they put some other kids at risk, right?

BinahYeteirah

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 5:30 pm

I am very sorry to hear about your chicken pox experience, amother.

I wasn't going to say anything, because I don't think it's really worth arguing about either, but I do want to point one thing out.

As time goes on, harmful chicken pox infections are likely to become more common due to the vaccine. Infections at older ages are much more dangerous. Use of the vaccine means that people are more likely to get chicken pox as they get older as vaccine immunity wanes, which makes complication like the ones amother experienced much more likely. These types of complications are very, very rare in younger children who get chicken pox.

amother

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 5:52 pm

above poster that is very sad what you went through. But even though you went through all that I still don't think I would give the chicken poxs shot because it does not guarantee I will never get it, and shingles can come from the shot also. Also the shot doesn't last forever it wears off after like a few years like posters already said. Also your complications were probably from scratching the poxes right that got infected? what you got is very rare anyway. Most people who get chicken pox are not seriously ill.

amother

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:10 pm

amother wrote:

No, you are 100% wrong about that. It's a strange assumption to make anyway.

Like I said, I don't care to argue vax/no-vax. It is beyond pointless, since everyone thinks they are right!
I don't even care about the chicken pox vax.

My ONLY point is this... to say chicken pox (and mumps and whatever else) is not a serious illness is foolish. Simply foolish and naive. They do not invest millions of dollars and effort to come up with vaccines that are not needed.

Tell youself whatever you need to to make yourself feel better about the risky game of vax/no-vax. I honestly could not care less.

yksraya

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:24 pm

mumps started when a vaccinated kid went abroad the vaccine as usually did not help him and he came back to the states and many vaccinated kids were infected. enough said! vaccines is a money making business. its a leading cuase of autism and many more problems.
I have an autistic brother therefore I did allot of research. vanishmartem meod lnafshosachem may all be well!!!

rain

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:25 pm

amother wrote:

My brother and his wife and her whole family are very against vaccines. I never really understood why. I do know that it's making my mother crazy. She talks about it constantly and want his children vaccinated. I understand why we get vaccinated. But I am really clueless why people are against it. A cold or ear ache is nothing compared to polio. I wouldn't mind a calm explanation. I can't really ask my brother, because it's such a heated topic and I don't want to cause a fight.

the reason people for the most part are against vaccines are not from small ear aches, etc.
the problem is that these vaccines are kept "alive" by heavy metals and such which according to some are toxic to the body in high doses
for example people are against the MMR because some link it to Autism
the MMR used to contain high levels of mercury, which people believed to a cause of the disorder. however, in recent years, the mercury has been taken out, and there has been no decrease in the cases of Autism.
I am back and forth with vaacines. the only one which scares me is the MMR, but it is soooooooo important

eytse

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:35 pm

The only thing I have ever had to say on this topic is, baruch hashem we don't live in a time where HALF OF ALL CHILDREN DIE before age five (that was New York City in 1900), or where countless children are CRIPPLED by polio, or where boys are infertile because of mumps, etc. There is a small statistical risk in everything we do, and we are much more likely to get hurt driving our cars or crossing the street than we are by vaccines. I am very, very, very skeptical of government/big business/who funds certain things/etc. But what about high fructose corn syrup and the food companies that are paid by govt food subsidies to make us fat? What about the gasoline that, every time we fill up our cars, sends money to Hamas via Saudi Arabia? My point is that this world is completely messed up, so I don't understand why people attack something that has done SO SO SO much more good than harm.

Orchid

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 8:34 pm

amother wrote:

Chicken pox is a serious illness.

According to the CDC, chicken pox causes 50 deaths per year and 500 cases of serious side affects. Unfortunately, you are one of the 500. Your personal tragedy notwithstanding, these numbers are statistically insignificant. And I don't mean to diminish your suffering with this statement, but public health policy is based on cold hard data. The reason this vaccine was marketed lechatchila was to help working families avoid sick days. From there it became "mandatory" to "protect" the children from a serious illness. Extremely rare cases such as your aside, cp is not a serious illness. 50 per year is a CDC number (and by the way, when the vaccine first came out, the CDC said 40 per year).

chavamom

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 2:17 am

Babies not only get antibodies from nursing, they get a large amount of antibodies transferred in utero. Ever wonder why you have to wait until a baby is over a year to give them the MMR vaccine? No? Well, it's b/c the level of circulating MATERNAL antibodies (in other words, antibodies the baby got from his/her mother, not ones s/he produced) are too high for the vaccine to be effective before that time. One of the reasons that they lowered the age from 18 mos (when the MMR used to be given) to 12 mos. is b/c in my generation, our mother's actually had measles, mumps and rubella. They had a higher level of antibody transfer to their children. Today, few mother's actually have had these diseases and were vaccinated. Low and behold! They found that vaccinated mother's had a lower transfer of antibodies to their child and they were able (in fact, needed to) vaccinate at an earlier age. You can call it crazy....but you'd be wrong.

jerusalem-girl

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 6:04 am

BinahYeteirah wrote:

I'm of the same mind.

I feel terrible for you amother. But your story is anecdotal. Here's a sampling of two of my own anecdotes.
I know one child that died from chicken pox. The girl had had the chicken pox vaccine.

I know a boy who developed profound hearing loss as a result of vaccination. His pediatrician, who is totally pro-vax, admitted that sometimes there are side effects. She still encourages vaccines, and I, despite knowing this boy well, am from the vaxers.

No one's saying that if we could wish all illnesses away, that we wouldn't. But for some, vaccines are not the perfect answer for other reasons.

Aside from any other issues that I have with vaccines, I'm disturbed at how it does not necessarily provide immunity. I'm not the only one to have discovered, when in my first trimester already, that despite having taken all the vaccines and booster shots, that I'm not immune to Rubella. (And a subsequent vaccine after my baby was born still did not change my antibody level)

And when does the one in a million chance of complications of a minor illness make it worthwhile to take a vaccine with a one in a million chance of complication+ the chance of immunity not granted?

As an aside, I do give vaccines, for the most part.

EvenI

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 8:17 am

eytse wrote:

Your premise that they have done more good than harm might not be backed up by reality. It isn't clear that the introduction of each vaccine was responsible for the decline of the illness. Moreover, the basic action and effectiveness of vaccines has always been in question. And it certainly isn't clear what harm they may have caused. Go and try to measure what harm vaccines have or haven't caused, and you'll find it difficult.

JollyMommy

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 11:49 am

I would say that before anyone decides not to vaccinate their child that they be required to take a college level epidemiology (the study of the spread of disease in the population) first. that will give you correct information about disease, how it spreads, immunity and vaccinations. After taking this class it was obvious that not vaccinating children is neglectful. I do understand the concept of spreading out vaccines, as I do for my children and perhaps skipping chicken pox but other than that I think it is very unwise not to vaccinate your children.

And unless you have studied epidemiology for a semester I don't think you are educated enough to make this important decision. And no, reading books on the subject, even 10 books is not the same.