the importance of vaccines!

chavamom

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 1:06 pm

Even people with a good understanding of epidemiology make some gross errors in their assumptions about vaccines. If I hear one more professional talk about how we have a resurgence of whooping cough b/c people in CA aren't getting vaccinated....

Look, here are the facts. We *know* that DTP and DTaP don't confer long-term immunity. There was a study done that showed a huge percentage of adults with persistent coughs test positive for pertussis. The problem is that until recently, they rarely tested. You can also get it more than once, so having had a previous case doesn't confer immunity either. "Herd immunity" means that over 95% of a population is walking around with immunity. Our population doesn't BEGIN to approach "herd immunity" levels and studies where they actually test people with coughs show that pertussis is not rare in the community at large. Yet we continue to hear experts talk about how not getting a DPT is effecting "herd immunity" for pertussis. We even acknowledge this (to a degree) with the newer campaigns to vaccinate "mothers and others" who are around babies. Of course, before we had a safe vaccine for people above the age of 8, you didn't hear much about this. So, so much for all those people who know something about epidemiology really being the only ones informed. There is so much propaganda that circulates around vaccinations, it makes it very hard for ANYONE to make an educated decision.

-signed, a mother who has had pertussis in her house, not once, but TWICE in the past year....in her vaccinated children.

gryp

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 1:14 pm

chavamom wrote:

And did you get yourself tested for pertussis, you disease spreader?!?

EvenI

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 1:20 pm

esteec wrote:

I would say that before anyone decides not to vaccinate their child that they be required to take a college level epidemiology (the study of the spread of disease in the population) first. that will give you correct information about disease, how it spreads, immunity and vaccinations. After taking this class it was obvious that not vaccinating children is neglectful. I do understand the concept of spreading out vaccines, as I do for my children and perhaps skipping chicken pox but other than that I think it is very unwise not to vaccinate your children.

And unless you have studied epidemiology for a semester I don't think you are educated enough to make this important decision. And no, reading books on the subject, even 10 books is not the same.

As someone who is seriously anxious about how to decide this issue, I wish I did not feel that I would have to go and study much more than college level epidemiology to make an informed decision. I simply need access to a qualified reliable professional who is dedicated enough to go into the subject with the appropriate caution and depth and who respects people enough to address their concerns adequately instead of giving short simplistic answers that do anything but inspire confidence. I know I am not the only one who is anxious not to neglect my children and also not to submit them to needless harm in the name of "the right thing to do." If you could enlighten me as to why we can all be confident that it is clearly correct to assume that the system has the best interests of the public at heart, I'd be more than happy to hear.

chavamom

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 1:30 pm

gryp wrote:

chavamom wrote:

And did you get yourself tested for pertussis, you disease spreader?!?

How do you think we know we had it?

But in answer to your implied question here, the methods of testing and availability of rapid testing are what have improved and made it more likely for people to get a diagnosis today.

Want to know the funniest part? I took my son to his ped, said I thought he had pertussis, he gave me a lecture on how highly unlikely that was, how there weren't even any reported cases in the county....

Fast forward a week later. A kid in my son's preschool tested positive. They made everyone with a cough get tested. There were 3 kids in my son's class alone that had it. Man, my ped was on the phone, woke me up on a Sunday morning telling me to get my kid into the office (health dept. had called him). And yes, you must be vaccinated to go to this preschool.

NaturalMom

Mon, Jan 09 2012, 3:01 pm

esteec wrote:

Really? While in college, I took a Philosophy of Religion course. The evidence clearly demonstrates that all religions are man made with zero input from G-d.

And all the anti-Israel stuff we were taught in our Political Science class?

Don't believe everything you pick up in a college course.

goldrose

Wed, Jan 11 2012, 11:42 pm

luv2cook4eva wrote:

just wondering- are there any ladies here that were pro and turned con or vice versa? why?

I was raised in a completely medical environment. We went to "the best" doctor, my parents practically worshiped medical science.

When I was pg with my first (9 or so years ago), a friend of mine gave birth to her first. One day she commented to me randomly that she heard on the radio that vaccines can cause autism. With my medical upbringing, I didn't blink, and quickly replied, "Rivky, you don't know what you're talking about. It's not true."

Fast forward 6 months. My baby was born. We followed the standard vax schedule at 2 months and at 4 months. But the "vaccines can cause autism" comment lurked in the back of my mind. Suddenly it was MY OWN kid, not my friend's or anyone else's, and I couldn't just dismiss it.

My husband and I started reading. At my daughter's six month appointment, we told the doctor that we're holding off vaxing while we research. We knew just about nothing on the subject at that point. The doctor ("top" respected in Boro Park, who was also my ped as a kid) became intensely defensive, and replied sternly, "Whatever you're reading, it's not true!" -- assuming that we were already anti-vaccines. Of course this put us on high alert - why is she so worried if vaccines are pure and good? We're reading both sides of the story and let the truth win... She proceeded to warn us that we're not welcome in her practice without vaccinating.

Well, well, well....
We bought books and we read and read and read. We could always change our mind and vaccinate, but we could never undo the shot...

And today...b"H we are comfortable with our research and our decision not to vaccinate.
Ultimately, we are responsible for our children, and we are the ones staying up with them at night and taking care of them etc....not the doctor. And so we felt it our duty to do the research and make an informed choice.

My suggestion - you want to give shots? Go ahead, but learn about what you're doing first. Read whatever you can get your hands on - go to the library, you don't need to spend $$ on the books. Read and become educated about both sides, and make an INFORMED decision, so that whatever you decide it is YOUR choice and nobody else's.

celestial

Thu, Jan 12 2012, 12:09 am

NaturalMom wrote:

esteec wrote:

How does this prove that all knowledge gained in a college classroom are false?
The inconsistencies with this response are so staggering my my is just exploding trying to address them.

tikva18

Thu, Jan 12 2012, 12:34 am

goldrose wrote:

luv2cook4eva wrote:

just wondering- are there any ladies here that were pro and turned con or vice versa? why?

Well said.

I'm a you'd-better-give-my-kid-every-single-vaccine-under-the-sun parent who turned into one who researches the heck out of everything before I give it to my child parent. Some of my kids had reactions that our ped wouldn't recognize as reactions, my kids have issues that have stayed with them that I believe are a result. I can't risk doing that to my youngest children because if my theory is correct then they also will develop problems and it would be not just negligent parenting on my behalf, but imo harmful/abusive. My job as a parent is to guard my children's health and do the best that I can to assure that they have good health and a means to get to said good health.

If you know me irl or even through my posts you will know that I do everything I can possibly can for my kids even if it's harder on me - such as radical dietary changes - that were no where near my radar years ago, changes in my approach to medicine and health. And I come from a heavily scientific background and my dh's father is an m.d. I lived and breathed science probably more than most anyone here just by growing up in my father's household and spending time with my grandparents (grandpa was another scientist - my free time was spent in his lab with him - and my free time with my father was spent helping him in his research).
I potentially face derision and harsh statements if I discuss these issues with my parents and ILs, and still, yet, I continue to defy the medical mainstream mold - as that has NOT worked for my family and I will NOT fail my kids anymore.
This is a hot topic for me - honestly, I'm worked up after writing it and am close to tears.
All I know is that I have to do the very best for my kids and if guarding them means NOT vaccinating them - even though I used to think otherwise, then I had golly well better do it. I know I stand alone in a crowd of many and I'm gettng used to it.

Ironically, my twins (my babies) are almost totally vaxxed - they are only missing the MMR and Polio. I heavily spaced out their shots, but I just cannot bring myself to give those last ones at this time.

And to the poster who asked if she's the only one who asks if her children's playmates have had the flu shot? I'm speechless - how can you go so far to impose your beliefs on others. Are you so afraid? Do you keep your kids home from school? Will you push for mandation of flu shots in all of the students in their classes? There is a limit to how much control we have in this world. If you are so worried then why not just wipe down the doorknobs, toilet seats, and toys when they leave your house. Make sure your kids eat a healthful diet, limit sugars, don't let them eat junk or drink soda, make sure they exercise, see the sun, and get plenty of sleep. Don't forget davening to HaKadosh Baruch Hu - he is the Rofeh of us all.

gryp

Thu, Jan 12 2012, 9:21 am

I was the mother who brought my oldest child so often for well-checkups they had to tell me to come back in a week because it was too early for the next shots.

I also went to the best doctors as a kid, in fact every time my parents switched pediatricians because they had so many patients it was almost impossible to get an appointment, almost the entire community I lived in followed suit and switched also. It was a funny cycle. I remember getting shots and hated the doctors for them (like any kid). Ironically my kids love going to the doctor (they know they aren't going to get shots like their friends do). I recently heard that my childhood pediatrician isn't taking patients who don't vaccinate. Shrug. I never liked him anyway. At my last child well-visit (prepuberty, I think it was) the doctor asked my father if he wanted me to get the newest vaccine out (iirc, it was Hep B). Luckily, my father surprised us all and asked for some reading material about the vaccine before deciding if he should bring me back to get it. One thing I'm eternally grateful for.

My family thinks I'm wacked for not vaccinating but that isn't exactly going to change my mind about it.

paperclip

Fri, Oct 12 2012, 1:34 am

I was the mother who took the kids to vaccinate for everything under the sun. I was so ignorant , but was mad at everyone that didnt vaccinate. They were terrible people in my mind. I was the good mother, But after having a friend whose child lost speech and stopped walking, and another friends child died 3 days after the DTP vaccine, and my sister stopped vaccinating, I finally took the plunge and did my own research. Did I find out things that we are never told! I was embarrassed to see the people I resented for not vaccinating their kids, because now I wouldnt vaccinate, when I read the vaccine info from the CDC! What a helpful eye opener coming straight from our own government. From the amazing compensation program for the vaccine injured to the graphs that proved the vaccines didnt get rid of any disease. Why would they need to compensate the injured from vaccines? Well, because when the pharmaceutical companies were told in the 1980s that they would be abled to be sued by people for vaccine injuries, they decided to stop manufacturing vaccines, since there would be too many lawsuits against them, so the govt , under Reagan formed the vaccine compensation program, so the govt would pay out the money and you cant sue Big Pharma anymore. So do you think the vaccines are safe , when they arent liable for any injuries a chid will sustain from vaccines? Well, think again, giving the GARDASIL vaccine to children 9 years old, meant for cervical cancer(its a STD) is a bit insane, and giving it to boys is more insane! so far over 100 girls died from it and 1 boy died. tens of thousands are injured from the vaccine and they are continuing to give it. Jewish girls are getting this vaccine, too.
The herd immunity idea came about when people decided not to vaccinate, and in order to put pressure on them , the new tactic was to say theres herd immunity (not true) if everyone gets vaccinated , so everyone would be mad at the unvaccinated. what a good ploy, its working really well , but not well enough . people who make up their mind never to vaccinate usually have a reason, and wont be convinced to vaccinate.
the akeres habayis hotline has a great section on vaccines . 718 506 9057, section 641, you will get eduated by doctors, no need to go to college.

Will you get the AIDS vaccine coming out very soon? Is your child or my childs carrying the virus, since there is no vaccine for it yet? or do they carry it only once the vaccine comes out, and then we find out that its dangerous and must get vaccinated? BTW Aids is a man made virus, created in Africa by the USA. Just like the swine flu is a man made virus, taken from the bones of a dead person that died during the spanish flu. THe scientist that dug up the body( forgot his name) talks about it, and the process.