on an up note :) | Imamother

Mitzvahmom

Thu, Jun 15 2006, 12:52 pm

I am sorry to hear about all the issues on this forum. I guess as a BT I do not have a knowledge of the history of certain groups. In many ways that is good so I do not have an preconcieved notion and I just am glad to be around other Jewish people that accept their culture and live it in their every day lives! I constantly hear from my family why are you "lowering" yourself and acting "unamerican". But I do not see it like that, I am Jewish and I am proud and I want my children to know who they are and the tremendous wealth of history and culture.

I admit it's hard in Boro Park, I saw it through my poor auntie.. We were a bit lost, and the kids tend to freak if I get out and they cannot (or atleast start wining I wanna get out too!), so she got out and tried to ask for directions. Pretty much everyone stared at her and walked by. Where as me (whom happened to be wearing my fall with a hat) people had no problem giving me directions and suggestions on where to find this and that. This in a way saddened me, because my aunt (through me and my children) has really opened up to the idea of being religious. I just simply told her it's not easy to get into the community, I mean BH I have been from for 11 years so I am pretty ingrained! She has just started out, and she's not married (ergo hair not covered yet).

Yet on an up note... My children and I are going to be in Crown Heights for shabbos (very exciting!!) and we are spending lunch with a friend. My kids beg to do it every week, because they love "seeing all the Jewish" people and feeling not so alone. Smile

Have a good shabbos! (sorry for any mistakes or misspellings I am at work and typed this very fast )

chen

Thu, Jun 15 2006, 1:42 pm

Mitzvahmom, so nice to see a positive post from someone accepting the world as it is. I feel bad for your aunt, though. there is no excuse for frum ppl to treat others as if they are enemy spies from outer space. (I know whereof I speak. I have suffered the humiliation of being treated with rudeness, contempt and suspicion because my style of dress differed from the local norm. Wearing a tichel, athletic shoes, and a plain dumb oxford shirt and skirt-- from a BY uniform store, no less!-- rather than a sheitel, pumps, and a suit, I was clearly a "foreigner". It was August, but brrrrr!!!)

amother

Thu, Jun 15 2006, 1:56 pm

on the other hand, my husband dresses real chassidish and when in an out of town neighborhood, he also got the stares and non acceptance. We looked at it like they are just naive and moved on, no hard feelings.
No one means bad. I don't believe anyone meant anything by ignoring your aunt. they may not have understood her.

chen

Thu, Jun 15 2006, 3:03 pm

Mitzvahmom wrote:

oh tennis shoes... well hello, I have to walk 2 1/2 miles to shul!

what you have to do to go to shul is irrelevant and immaterial. athletic shoes are not appropriate for shabbos wear, and only marginally acceptable for everyday wear, period. do you think the ovos and imohos would have been deterred by such a thing? what's a little foot pain as compared to the sacrifices our forebears had to make? you'd be willing to give up your life al kiddush hashem but you're not willing to wear uncomfortable shoes?

JUST KIDDING!!!! I think you're showing great mesirus nefesh going to shul at all under the circs (kol hakovod!), and you'd be nuts even to try it in dress shoes. Though I've no doubt there are people who honestly agree with the first paragraph, I've yet to see where it's written "thou shalt wear dress shoes ...thou shalt have no other shoes before Me." LOL

Motek

Thu, Jun 15 2006, 3:23 pm

Mitzvahmom wrote:

I saw it through my poor auntie.. she got out and tried to ask for directions. Pretty much everyone stared at her and walked by... she's not married (ergo hair not covered yet).

I wonder what that was about. They wouldn't know if she's married or not. And there are plenty (unfortunately) older singles in Boro Park who don't cover their hair.

New Yorkers are not known for their friendliness, HOWEVER, when asked a direct question, like for directions, they are usually quite helpful. I'm talking about all sort of people, nationalities. I find it very surprising that your aunt got no response.

Quote:

excellent point and attitude, no need to view other people as the enemy

Chen - what makes you certain it was your style of dress that set them off? Did they say that or are you assuming?

Were you also talking about Boro Park? I would find that strange because in that neighborhood there are all kinds of headgear (even though sheitels predominate), plenty of sneakers, and plenty of dumb skirts and blouses!

Mitzvahmom

Thu, Jun 15 2006, 5:12 pm

chen wrote:

what's a little foot pain as compared to the sacrifices our forebears had to make? you'd be willing to give up your life al kiddush hashem but you're not willing to wear uncomfortable shoes?

:

hehe...very funny! I cannot believe people would really think this... BTW yes I do sometimes remember, to leave nice shoes at shul... But let's be honest, onmy list of things important its at the very very very very bottom

chen

Thu, Jun 15 2006, 11:39 pm

Motek wrote:

Were you also talking about Boro Park? I would find that strange because in that neighborhood there are all kinds of headgear (even though sheitels predominate), plenty of sneakers, and plenty of dumb skirts and blouses!

actually it happened at different times in two different neighborhoods, one in the USA (not BP) and one in EY. More detail than this I prefer not to give so as not to prejudice our studio audience against an entire neighborhood or sect.

the discrimination in both cases was quite glaring. No, of course the storekeepers didn't say to me "We are going to ignore your presence in our empty store for fifteen minutes, then address you rudely and keep you waiting for another half hour while we smile warmly and serve the six Yiddish-speaking ladies in sheitlach and suits who came into the store after you did because you obviously don't belong here." they didn't need to; actions speak louder than words. (No, it was not an issue of language, either: their English was perfectly fine, and I do not talk like a professor when I am asking about strollers or children's wear.)

Just in case you're wondering: I left those stores w/o buyng anything and crossed them off my list of "places to shop when I visit".

happy2beme

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 9:06 am

Quote:

chen, u crack me up!!! as I was reading your first paragraph I was really starting to get nervous- previously, I had thought u were one of the normal ones Smile

then when I got to 'JK' I let out my breath in relief!!!!

Quote:

"thou shalt wear dress shoes ...thou shalt have no other shoes before Me."

lol!!!
I see a lot of ppl leave fancy slippers in shul too.
on a slight tangent, I sit on the train & I see a lot of non jews wear sandals & I don't know what they do to their feet -I'm assuming heels & tight shoes- but they are so distorted & ugly!! one person had these bumps (forgot what they're called) on every single toe! someone else had these bunions the size of texas... I'm telling u, I think I've seen more cases than a podiatrist! uch! at least don't wear sandals & put your medical probs on display! I'm all for heels & how pretty they look- but they really kill your feet.
so hey, mitzvahmom, at least you'll have pretty feet! Very Happy

chen

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 12:52 pm

happy2beme wrote:

previously, I had thought u were one of the normal ones Smile

who's been spreading those vicious rumors about me? I do not claim, not have I ever claimed, to be "normal". so boring, doncha know. LOL

OT, but someone explained to me the technical difference between "lo normali" (not normal) and "meshuga" (crazy). (Joke alert) "Lo normali" means he was born that way; "meshuga" means he started out normal and something happened that made him that way. Very Happy