Would you wash out your kid's mouth with soap?

groisamomma

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 2:09 am

My almost-5-yr-old daughter used a curse word yesterday and I freaked out. I told her that if she says it again I would wash her mouth out with soap. Today she said it twice and looked at me to make sure I was watching. I calmly picked her up and walked her to the bathroom. She was kicking and screaming and clawing at my face with her nails. I touched the bar soap (I know for sure it's nontoxic) to her closed mouth. She was crying hysterically, but I held her afterward until she calmed down. We discussed it, and she agreed never to say it again.

My dh thinks it was too harsh, but won't give me any other ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions? I feel like the world's worst mother right now, but I don't see that I had any other choice. I had already put her in her room in the past for dirty words, but this one took the cake.

Feedback, anyone????

Last edited by groisamomma on Wed, Apr 07 2010, 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total

groisamomma

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 2:31 am

Pepper is a good idea. Why didn't I think of that? She's the child who will push my buttons at all costs, at any time of day or night. The problem with ignoring her, is that she'll repeat it louder and louder just to get my attention. I'd be mortified if anyone heard her saying it. I also tried explaining to her the meaning (in very generic terms) and I thought she got my gist, but I guess she's just too young to grasp just how bad it it.

shalhevet

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 2:35 am

All I can say is I heard a chinuch program on the radio a week or two ago, and the rav answering said putting charif (ok, it's stronger than pepper, but still) in a child's mouth is child abuse. I tend to agree.

About little children (2-6) cursing/ using bad language etc - just ignore it. They usually don't understand what they are saying and get a kick out of the reaction. If they don't get a reaction they will stop themselves IME.

lilacdreams

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 2:43 am

with my older kids I did the pepper thing - only once was needed.
Now with my younger kids I dont doit. I just use my "ignore button."

If your dd sees that that word has no power over you then she will get bored after a few minutes. When we react we give the bad word a huge amount of power. Not worth it - even if the whole neighborhood hears her say it. what she is the first kid to use a bad word ever???

Dont feel bad - ts hard to know in advance which button our kids are going to press from day to day! When she starts to use it just go out of the room or make a phonce call to a friend or get out some toys to switch her attention.

freidasima

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 3:16 am

I would never do it. I'm with Shalhevet, at a certain age they are doing it for attention and afterwards if they are older it won't stop them, it will just stop them saying it in front of YOU. So what have you gained with a scared kid inside the house and a foul mouthed outside?

I know someone whose father did it with them and they did it with their child and the kid - now past teenage, still uses words one shouldn't. So it didn't help. I've never heard the parent use such words in public but obviously the soap business wasn't that much of a trauma for the child. I remember when it happened and a few of us mothers were discussing it when it was mentioned and I was horrified. I'm horrified now.

Not that I'm not for a good potch on the tush when a kid needs it (lightly but with feeling). One potch and that's that to get off steam so that you won't break their head (we are all human and I'm talking about a parent really getting pushed, for something dangerous like running into the street or endangering a little brother or sister) But this soap business smacks from real abuse. So does pepper or charif.

Talk to your kids. If they are three and saying a new word that's one thing. They will say it over and over. But if they are five or six and up? You can reason with them. Do it.

groisamomma

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 5:12 am

amother wrote:

If you think soap is bad, my best friend as a child told me that her step-mother once took human excrement and approached her with it, holding her down, threatening to use it on her. She didn't use it, but I would call that abuse.

That is disgusting and definitely abuse, but I don't think anyone doing that is a normal human being. I also don't think a tiny taste of soap falls into the same category...

libramom

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 7:45 am

the idea here is - CLEANING OUT THE MOUTH FROM THE DIRT.
pepper or chareef would not serve that purpose.
I think thats a very strong message - in a good way.
as a kid I was threatened with that. had it happen to me maybe once that I can remember, and even that, very vaguely.
I don't know if when the time comes with my kids - if I would actually do that, but I think there is something to it.
it is not under the category of abuse - rest assured dear groisamama.
maybe it feels like it when doing it...
but parents got scared of doing anything for dicipline these days.
no wonder we are in the age where chutzpa is all around...

freidasima

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 8:21 am

There is a tremendous difference between abuse and discipline. You don't have to yell, to beat or to wash a mouth with soap (or even threaten to do so) in order to discipline. What it teaches a child is that if you are older and bigger you can physically or emotionally do whatever you want with anyone who is smaller and younger and who can't object or run away.
Great lesson. Really great lesson.

Discipline involves warning, explaining what the consequences will be, and deciding upon suitable consequences when necessary.

And if a kid runs into the street endangering his life you can potch his tush as you grab his arm and pull him back because the potch isnt for him, it's for you so that you won't explode. Explain that to him when he stops crying.

sarahmalka

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 8:46 am

freidasima wrote:

I agree 100%!!! I'm actually pretty appalled that anyone still thinks it's ok and effective to wash out mouth with soap or put charif in the mouth. It just takes some creativity and research to find better methods. How about time outs, 1,2,3 Magic method, taking away toys, putting toys in a time out, making a rewards/punishment chart, SuperNanny books for ideas, etc. etc. Do you need more explanation of these and other discipline methods? This is my favorite method for my family: http://www.parentmagic.com/
Also I came up with an idea of "rewards jars" for my DD who is 3. I put 2 glass jars on the counter where she could see, stuck a smiley face on one and a sad face on the other, put treats (candies, fun beads, etc.) in the happy jar. When she is naughty I talk to her about the behavior and we put 1 or more treats in the naughty jar. Then move them back at some point if her behavior is good. You can decide what constitutes good behavior that would put the treats back in the positive jar (like being polite, cleaning up toys, etc.) and you can decide when she gets to actually eat or play with the treats. The rewards chart is like a chart you put stickers on for good behavior and when she accrues enough stickers she gets to pick out a new toy/book/headband/something she's been wanting.

Always combine positive reinforcement with negative reinforcement. It's just as important, if not more so, to say 'yes good job' than to say 'no don't do that' especially with all the restrictions and "no's" that are part and parcel of frum life. (This idea I borrow from Rosally Saltsman's book "Parenting by the Book: A Weekly Portion of Chinuch Banim" available from Targum press.) Also consistency is key.

ShmeinaK

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 9:08 am

groisamomma wrote:

I certainly do not think you are the worst mother in the world based on whta you've said.
I don't know about using soap if it is something to do or not, but the fact that you held her afterwords so that she knew you loved her etc. was fantastic.

Pepper, charif etc. CAN CAUSE CHEMICAL BURNS!!! I saw a baby once that accidentally stuck her thumb into a rather mild pepper. She got burns to her thumb AND TO HER MOUTH - because once the thumb hurt, where does a kid with a painful thumb put it first.....

sarachana

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 9:45 am

My dh takes my dd to the toilet and tells her to say the words into it, LOUD, since that is where they all belong. Then he has her flush the toilet so they all "go away." It may not sound as affective as pepper or soap, BUT trust me, when my dd is suddenly forced to say the words out loud into a toilet bowl, she screams and cries and begs not to have to. This method obviously applies to when she understands the words she is saying.

ShmeinaK

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 10:22 am

sarachana wrote:

That sounds like a great alternative. I also have heard of people saying "those are bathroom words" (I'm not sure if that would apply to curses). It was really cute when one day the toddler came to say he needed to go to the bathroom - and once in there he let forth a stream of 'bathroom words' then he came out all relieved heheheh.

ShmeinaK

Wed, Apr 07 2010, 11:19 am

sarachana wrote: