Ruth Rimonim Hotel - Tzfas

MiracleMama

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 6:58 am

Has anyone stayed here? There is a note on their website that you have to give advance notice if you want glatt kosher meals. Does that mean I'm getting airline food? Or do they actually have a kosher kitchen? What's the story? My husband called the hotel but could not get a clear response about this.

Marion

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 7:05 am

By law every hotel in the country (with a few notable exceptions that are known) have a kosher kitchen.

We stayed there once, 5 years ago, just before Pesach IIRC. It was kosher enough for DH's grandparents (we were their guests), who are more particular than we are about meat hechshers.

However, they are not, AFAIK, mehadrin. If, when you say glatt, you mean mehadrin, then I don't what you're getting.

Inspired

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 7:08 am

Its not mehadrin. Ask them where the mehadrin food comes from. It is not from their kitchen. Could be a local caterer.

MiracleMama

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:00 pm

Thanks for the info. I guess we will play it by ear when we get there. We spoke today to the tour guide who recommended the hotel and he told us the kashrus is good, so long as we don't eat meat. If we want meat, we have to request in advance different meat. Does that sound normal? I don't really understand all this.

charon

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:21 pm

Beautiful hotel!!

There is no such thing as glatt chicken so as long as it is mehadrin then that is ok. Some people are particular that meat has to be glatt therefore I guess in this hotel it has to be ordered specially for you.

Inspired

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:29 pm

charon wrote:

But it isn't mehadrin.

Miracle- is your tourguide also your rabbi?? It really isn't a tourguide's place to tell you what is acceptable kashrus wise. What hechsherim in Israel do you eat? Do you hold by heter mechira? tomato pastes, canned fruits and vegetables are still a concern if you don't. Consult your rav. The hotel being plain rabbanut means they use products with the hechsher of any other rabbanut.

MiracleMama

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:40 pm

Inspired wrote:

charon wrote:

I will definitely talk to my rabbi. I don't really know what I eat in Israel, lol! Last time we went it was with our rabbi actually so we ate where he ate and never had to think about anything. Before that we were not so frum yet and any kashrus at all would have sufficed.

The main thing really was I wanted to make sure we would get decent meals in the hotel. We are traveling with three young kids and being able to have breakfast and dinner right in the hotel and not have to schlepp around looking for food is a huge convenience, but I don't want scary airplane type food either.

shalhevet

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:40 pm

Ha ha Inspired, I was just going to post that I was impressed their rav is also a tour guide. Uh, and I'm sure charon is a lovely poster, but I would guess she's not your LOR either.

I am not trying to imply anything about Rabbanut Tzfas (which I presume is the kashrus body for the hotel), but here are just a few of the issues that might show you how mehadrin or not is a lot more than meat.

On many kashrus (or other halachic) issues there may be several opinions.

First some background about why there is a difference in standards between mehadrin and non-mehadrin on all kinds of products:
The rabbanut has a certain approach: They say since this is a country of (mostly) Jews, Jews are going to eat this product anyway (this would apply even more to restaurants etc where people have a choice of it being kosher or not - for packaged products they must have kashrut by law). So our job is to ensure it is kosher according to some/many/most opinions and at the same time keep down costs, do things that can realistically be done by the whole country, not drive the company bananas etc.

I say some/many/most, because the 'rabbanut' is not one body (for kashrus concerns), but is different in each place. Not every rabbanut is of the same standard. Some rabbis are more careful/ involved, some have higher standards, some see higher levels of kashrus as l'chatchila etc.

The badatzim have a different approach. They say: kashrus should be at the highest possible level, taking most/all opinions into account. If a company/ establishment won't comply with our requirements - too bad. If a consumer doesn't want to pay extra for superior kashrut - he doesn't have to.

The badatzim are not one entity either. Theoretically (and not so theoretically) any group of 3 Jews can call themselves a badatz. Each badatz have their own standards, requirements etc, based on the piskei halacha of their rabbanim.

Some rabbanuyot say: We admit we have approach 1, and therefore our kashrut is not lechatchila, but it's to keep the costs down, and is for 'the masses'. But we also give a hechsher to those who are willing to do things lechatchila/ l'chumra. So they have a two-tiered system in their town, and each manufacturer/ restaurant/ hotel can take their pick.

But there is no universal standard, and so a rabbanut mehadrin in town X, may be no better (or worse) than regular rabbanut in town Y. Each one needs to be checked out individually.

Remember, a hechsher is also only as good as its mashgichim. If a particular hechsher has stringent requirements, but a mashgiach only gets there once a month, or doesn't bother checking things out, or is scared to say anything - the hechsher isn't much good either.

So what kind of differences can there be between hechsherim?

Meat/ poultry - glatt or not? How the meat is shechted (how many chickens an hour?), what things make the animal treif, how the meat/ poultry is kashered (for example, many rabbanut hechsherim rely on a kula allowing the salt to just be on the outside with a small slit, whereas better hechsherim require the bird to be fully cut open before salting).

Fish - do we need some scales still attached to confirm the fish is kosher if it arrived via non jews? What about checking for worms etc?

Milk products - milking on Shabbos, CY, additives

Fruit, veg, grains - trumot and maasrot (how they are done), checking- what sample, what things get checked (remember many vegetables and grains have more bug problems in Israel due to the heat), relying on heter mechira or not, there are different shittas for orla - some say it's enough if there is less than a certain % of orla for that fruit in the entire market, others ensure the orchard you got your fruit from isn't orla

Baked products - how fine a sieve for the flour, additives, taking challa

MiracleMama

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:41 pm

charon wrote:

Beautiful hotel!!

It certainly looks it from the pics I saw. The rooms have such a romantic look to them I think - almost makes me want to leave the kids home, lol!

dilego

Wed, Apr 14 2010, 5:52 pm

there is a small heimishe restaurant in town,thats mehadrin and ithinkanother hechscher I don't remember.meat and poultry are either badatz or landau.im not sure anymore.maybe you would call it a take awaywith sitting arrangements.

shalhevet

Thu, Apr 15 2010, 3:18 am

MiracleMama wrote:

Another point I forgot to mention is bishul akum. There are different opinions in halacha what a Jew needs to do, plus places without adequate hashgacha might not bother following any of them some or all of the day. Many or even most kitchen workers are Arab. It won't help to order glatt meat (what does that mean anyway, which hechsher?) if an Arab cooks it for you.

lizard8

Thu, Apr 15 2010, 3:23 am

I stayed there pretty recently. The food is not even mehadrin- just tzfat rabbanut. Out of E'Y you can just eat the fruit, but with trumos and maasros, I don't even start! There are both milchig and fleishig restaraunts with great hechsherim on the main street.