Is this a defintion of autism?

gryp

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 11:36 am

Quote:

1) Decreased or absent response to environment (responds, if at all, only to loud voice or painful stimuli);
(2) Decreased or absent eye contact (does not fix gaze upon family members or other individuals); or
(3) Inconsistent or absent responses to external stimuli (does not recognize familiar people or things).

seeker

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 11:59 am

This is the official definition in USA currently:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

Might change when they put out the DSM-V.

gryp

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:01 pm

They're pretty close.

mamommommy

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:02 pm

GR wrote:

Quote:

Those may be some symptoms of Autism, but no, it's not a definition.

gryp

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:06 pm

If a child had:
-decreased or absent response to environment
-decreased or absent eye contact
-inconsistent or absent responses to external stimuli,

would you venture a guess that he is autistic?

mamommommy

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:10 pm

GR wrote:

If a child had:
-decreased or absent response to environment
-decreased or absent eye contact
-inconsistent or absent responses to external stimuli,

would you venture a guess that he is autistic?

It would obviously depend on many other factors. Autism is certainly a possible cause of those symptoms, but there are also other neurological disorders that can cause them. Always best to check with a neurologist and/or a developmental pediatrician.

gryp

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:28 pm

Quote:

an abnormal absorption with the self; marked by communication disorders and short attention span and inability to treat others as people)

http://wordnetweb.princeton.ed.....utism

Quote:

Bio-neurological disorder that is observable in early childhood with symptoms of abnormal self-absorption, characterised by lack of response to other humans and by limited ability or disinclination to communicate and socialize. Other symptoms include avoiding eye contact, sensory integration dysfunction, and restricted and repetitive behaviors such as stims.

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/autism

Quote:

a complex developmental disorder that affects a person's ability to communication and interact with others. ...

www.nslij-genetics.org/apbib/glossary.html

Quote:

absorption in self-centered subjective mental activity (as daydreams, fantasies, delusions, and hallucinations) usually accompanied by marked withdrawal from reality 2 : a mental disorder originating in infancy that is characterized by self-absorption, inability to interact socially, repetitive ...

www.askdrscully.com/psychward.html

I don't think I need to copy and paste any more definitions. "Autism" comes from the word "auto" meaning "solo" or "self."

An autistic child is one who is in his own world, extremely involved in self.

The CDC's page sounds more to me like a list of symptoms, and supposedly an autistic person has a few symptoms from the lists they give.

It sounds to me, that the list of three symptoms I gave is the same thing as saying, an abnormal self-absorption.

Isramom8

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:35 pm

Is this a list of signs someone noticed in a child, but the person is stopping short of calling it autism, and you want to know if it, in fact, is autism?

I remember that the parents of "Karen" (famous old book) were shocked to be told that all the children at the place they were advised to take their daughter had CP, because no one had said straight out that Karen had CP.

Last edited by Isramom8 on Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

seeker

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:36 pm

GR wrote:

Quote:

These are all SYMPTOMS of autism but the question was is it a definition. No, it is definitely not. It would be enough to refer for a full evaluation but not nearly enough for a diagnosis.

For example, all three could also be signs of a visual or other sensory disability.

Nomad

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 12:41 pm

hey GR, if your convinced its autism despite what other people show you is the full defintion of autism - than why ask?

from what your saying it sounds like a high possibility, but other things have to be taken into account - like is it a brain injury? is the kid blind/deaf? is it an emotional disturbance? mental retardation? or even just shyness??

I didnt look at the links provided, but this is how autism is diagnosed - based on these symptoms:

http://www.education.com/refer.....eria/

gryp

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 1:15 pm

Because I found this today:
http://www.hrsa.gov/Vaccinecom.....e.htm

It's the Vaccine Injury chart which has encephalopathy (brain damage) as an adverse reaction to MMR and Dtap. The part I posted above is part of their definition for encephalopathy. Here's it is in full (I bolded the part I posted above):

Quote:

(2) Encephalopathy. For purposes of the Vaccine Injury Table, a vaccine recipient shall be considered to have suffered an encephalopathy only if such recipient manifests, within the applicable period, an injury meeting the description below of an acute encephalopathy, and then a chronic encephalopathy persists in such person for more than 6 months beyond the date of vaccination.

(I) An acute encephalopathy is one that is sufficiently severe so as to require hospitalization (whether or not hospitalization occurred).

(A) For children less than 18 months of age who present without an associated seizure event, an acute encephalopathy is indicated by a “significantly decreased level of consciousness” (see “D” below) lasting for at least 24 hours. Those children less than 18 months of age who present following a seizure shall be viewed as having an acute encephalopathy if their significantly decreased level of consciousness persists beyond 24 hours and cannot be attributed to a postictal state (seizure) or medication.

(B) For adults and children 18 months of age or older, an acute encephalopathy is one that persists for at least 24 hours and characterized by at least two of the following:

(1) A significant change in mental status that is not medication related; specifically a confusional state, or a delirium, or a psychosis;
(2) A significantly decreased level of consciousness, which is independent of a seizure and cannot be attributed to the effects of medication; and
(3) A seizure associated with loss of consciousness.

(C) Increased intracranial pressure may be a clinical feature of acute encephalopathy in any age group.

(D) A "significantly decreased level of consciousness" is indicated by the presence of at least one of the following clinical signs for at least 24 hours or greater (see paragraphs (2)(I)(A) and (2)(I)(B) of this section for applicable timeframes):

(1) Decreased or absent response to environment (responds, if at all, only to loud voice or painful stimuli);
(2) Decreased or absent eye contact (does not fix gaze upon family members or other individuals); or
(3) Inconsistent or absent responses to external stimuli (does not recognize familiar people or things).

(E) The following clinical features alone, or in combination, do not demonstrate an acute encephalopathy or a significant change in either mental status or level of consciousness as described above: Sleepiness, irritability (fussiness), high-pitched and unusual screaming, persistent inconsolable crying, and bulging fontanelle. Seizures in themselves are not sufficient to constitute a diagnosis of encephalopathy. In the absence of other evidence of an acute encephalopathy, seizures shall not be viewed as the first symptom or manifestation of the onset of an acute encephalopathy.

Is it just me, or wouldn't that mean that autism is a side-effect of the MMR and Dtap? Or as the CDC likes to say: autism-like symptoms.

Nomad

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 1:22 pm

aha, gotcha,

it is SCARY!

but that in itself is not autism. its just indicative that there is something wrong in the brain at that moment. IF those symptoms remain along with some of the other ones listed - it may be called autism eventually.

its a side effect that may not stay

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 1:25 pm

But if it could start, whether it does or does not continue, how can anyone so confidently say that autism is not linked at all to vaccines?

Nomad

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 1:27 pm

because of the research that doesnt support any link.

BUT personally I did wait to give my ds his MMR because the idea of encephalopathy does freak me out.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 1:29 pm

Nomad wrote:

because of the research that doesnt support any link.

BUT personally I did wait to give my ds his MMR because the idea of encephalopathy does freak me out.

Research is limited. One can say something is not proven, but one cannot say that it's impossible.

Chana Miriam S

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 1:29 pm

autism can be identified as early as six months, long before the mmr. it has been proven over and over again that autism is not caused by vaccinations. people just wish it was so they would not have to blame genetics or external environmental factors and they could maybe sue and get money for it.

my husband thinks that autism is the next step in the evolution of the human brain. we all know we are only using a small portion of our brain's potential. some people on the spectrum have such amazing gifts that could only be possible by using more of their brains.

our developmental pediatrician did not laugh when he heard what my husband thought...

Nomad

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 1:30 pm

didnt say it was proven. just that it doesnt support.

tahtsw hy the idea still freaks me out.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 2:13 pm

chanamiriam wrote:

Some medical professionals are of the opinion that there is a predisposition to autism, at such young ages as you mentioned, but giving vaccines (toxins, live viruses, what not) triggers it into action. Not necessarily creating yesh me'ayin, but taking a loaded gun and going ahead and letting the bullet be released.
I'm curious if there was ever a study done on infants who had this identified at 6 months and some got vaccinated, others did not.

Meema2Kids

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 3:03 pm

Those sound like some of the symptoms of autism, but in the DSM-IV link above you'll see that a person has to meet a certain number of criteria from the three larger categories.

From what I understand, autism is defined by its observable symptoms, not by the underlying pathology. There are probably several if not many biological causes for it.

gryp

Wed, Apr 28 2010, 8:29 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

chanamiriam wrote:

There are many in the medical field who believe that the genetic predisposition is there and the loaded gun comes and forces the child over the boundary line. Then there are some who can't seem to make up their mind, or maybe don't want to say what they know. Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....edded

Also, there is no way to know who has such a predisposition and who doesn't so a study like that could never be done.