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How do you afford a simcha (offshoot of afford life)?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 8:35 am
To my frugal mind, it looks like an upsherin has become a Bar Mitzvah, which has become a chassunah, which has become an inaugaral ball. There have been communities which have tried to curtail the spiriling costs of keeping up with the Steins.
Does a Bar Mitzvah boy need both a kiddish in shul with all the trimmings and a dinner in a hall?
Does every chassunah guest have to be invited to the entire affair, or is it in poor taste to invite some guests to only part of the affair? Should a l'chaim be a mini chassunah? Should every sheva brochas be a mini l'chaim?
Even you tootsiepies with little kids will be doing simchas eventually (I"Y"H").
Any thoughts?
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suomynona




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 9:19 am
Do you really think someone's gonna post here that they think a l'chaim should be a mini-chassuna? Smile Have you noticed that everyone here advocates a frugal lifestyle? Isn't it interesting that noone who lives a fancy lifestyle posts about it on imamother? Smile

But seriously, someone wise once told me that for her childrens' bar mitzvahs, she made the lowest end simcha within the acceptable range. Even though she was willing to go lower than the norm, she didnt' feel that she could do that to her sons. Especially at that age.
And if the lowest end of acceptable still seems too fancy, maybe you are living in the wrong community Smile

Then there's the argument whether wealthy people are "allowed" to make really expensive simchas. Are they allowed to spend their money as they please (They already gives lots to tzedaka) ? or do they have a responsibility not to raise the standards?
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 9:26 am
I have seen some otherwise frugal (and struggling) people make large simchas. Remember that a chassunah is a 2 family affair with the chasson and kallah also having an opinion. The families could have different standards especially if they come from different communities with different standards. Maybe posters could share what their families did or are doing to bring down the costs.
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 9:36 am
I was in aveilus, had just started a job which paid me double, and therefore saved a lot for my son's bar mitzvah.

He's the only boy and we had a nice restaruant party with his friends and a little family and friends.

Otherwise, I don't know what we would have done, but people should not be embarrased to make very small parties or even just a kiddish!

Theyshouldn't borrow money,that's for sure.
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mimsy7420




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 9:41 am
Most people probably go into debt.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 11:00 am
In London the Adudah (I think) runs a wedding plan thing. You can choose from a few caterers, a few bands etc you can only invite X number of people (more if both Chassan and Kallah are from London)
I don't know specifics, because my parents didin't do it, although financially they should have. My father holds a communal postion so he felt he could not keep within the numbers. If you are a private person it is probably easier to invite less people. I think oone of my friends had her wedding like that, and you would never have known.

I would be very interested to know how other Rabbis, Shluchim etc deal with this issue. I am on Shlichus myself, and I do not exactly want to spend all our life savings on inviting the whole community to our simchas, but we will definately atagonize people if we don't.

The only simcha I have made so far is my sons upsher, which I catered myself, so it wasn't a hugh expense. We just invited everyone we knew in the city.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 1:19 pm
Quote:
Even though she was willing to go lower than the norm, she didnt' feel that she could do that to her sons


This bothers me. It sounds like the mother is ASSUMING that it would either embarrass her sons, or just make them feel left out. Couldnt she have discussed it with her sons, told them what she could afford - and given them a few options - or asked for their opinion on what kind of ideas they have that can fit into her budget.

There are parents (I know of) who do for their children things that the children DONT want or need (huge lechaim etc) and these parents refuse to acknowledge that what they do (being extravagant etc) is for their own EGOs.

So perhaps it would be a wise thing to find out exactly what the boys themselves FEEL that they need.
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goldrose




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 1:20 pm
I didnt mean to post anonymously, so here it is again - edited somewhat.

Quote:
Even though she was willing to go lower than the norm, she didnt' feel that she could do that to her sons


This bothers me. It sounds like the mother is ASSUMING that a different kind of party (bbq, restaurant, trip) would either embarrass her sons, or just make them feel left out. Couldnt she have discussed it with her sons, told them what she could afford - and given them a few options - or asked for their opinion on what kind of ideas they have that can fit into her budget??

There are parents (I know of) who do for their children things that the children DONT want or need (huge lechaim etc) and these parents refuse to acknowledge that what they do (being extravagant etc) is for their own EGOs.

So perhaps it would be a wise thing to find out exactly what the boys themselves FEEL that they need.
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chen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 1:27 pm
that's one reason we live frugally. IY"H we will have to make chasunahs, and I refuse to go into debt for them. (Don't ask: we know someone who R"L was divorced before the father finished paying for the chasunah. Ouch.) Fortunately we don't have so many friends, so a big bash for 700 ppl would be impossible in any case. I don't think we even know 700 ppl to say hello to in the street, let alone invite to a simchoh!

Bar mitzvahs we make on shabbos, which means no fotog and no band. also fewer guests b/c many out-of-towners can't come--no hotel w/I walking distance. centerpieces are just plain flowers in vases: I buy the flowers from a local florist (after comparing prices at 3 different shops) and the shul has vases that they use for every shul occasion. They are narrow and hold only 2-3 stems, so it's not a lot of flowers.

We give a medium kiddush, not the bare-bones wine and cookies, but not the full-schmear kugel-and-cholent one, either. what for? we're going to have a shabbos lunch right after, and most of the people in the shul are invited. (It's not a big shul.) If we had to go for the bare-bones kiddush or go into debt, we'd go for the bare-bones.

We have a friend who catered her sons' bar-mitzvahs herself--which right there saved thousands of dollars-- bought beautiful paper goods from a wholesale place, printed up both invitations and benchers on her laser printer, bought balloons from a wholesale party place for centerpieces, hired bochurim from the yeshiva to serve as waiters (thus stimulating the local economy as well as saving $) and still pulled off a very elegant affair for 150 ppl. Another friend, of more limited means, did the same general thing, but the luncheon was for 30 people in her house, not 200 in the shul. Instead, the wholemembership was invited to shalosh seudos at the shul. It was a small, unostentatious shul and a close-knit community, so all the shul members and guests helped set up and clear up. (It was a wonderful kibbutz-like atmosphere, no lack of achdus there. )

someone else I know who made her own wedding invited 50 people to a restaurant. The chuppah was put up right in the restaurant; the kallah wore a beautiful white suit that she now wears every Yom Kippur. It was a daytime affair, no smorgasbord before the chuppah, just the dinner after. The restaurant provided the centerpieces--do you think the guests cared that they didn't get to take them home?
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 2:02 pm
yeah, it's true. my sister was div. long before the bill were paid off. and she had known him almost all her life.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 07 2006, 2:44 pm
I have seen a few people, including a shaliach, who made a shmorgasbord for the general crowd at the chassunah and only served the sit down meal to family and out-of-town guests. I have a wealthy friend who is always seated with the balabatim at the chassunahs of shluchim. She said that these balabatim see all of the expense that goes into the chassanahs and hope that it isn't to impress them. It probably isn't necessary to go to extra expense to make balabatim comfortable.
The thing that everyone must remember is that a Bar Mitzvah in only one family and that family is the one in control. A chassunah as more people to please and must be worked out to satisfy both families and the chasson and kallah.
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klotzkashe




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 9:16 am
Here in Melbourne it has become accepted that for a Bar Mitzvah you have a Lchaim hwere the boy says his maamar at 9pm and from 7-10pm people come and there is a buffet of either sweets or savouries and sweets.
SOme families get bands and other's dont. There are tables to sit at.
It's a great way to minimise cost (and to spare pple form ahving ANOTHER late night)...

As for weddings, my sister got married recently and my parents insisted on cutting down the amt of pple coming to the wedding. This is not always possible, but we have a small family and the chosson is not from AUS so they cut it down to 190 pple. It was in a fancy hotel ($100+ a head) but the small size of the simcha (compared to the average size of a melbourn wedding 300-400 pple) made it so much nicer. pple realised that if they sit at hte tables and dont dance they are the odd ones out. and not only that - the pple who were there,,,,were the pple who takeh wanted to dance bc they are close adn they really do share in the simcha.

It was really special. I've decided I like intimate affairs...

however if you come from a huge family - that might not alwasy be the option.

Also in Melb. it's accepted to have hte opshernish at someones house - either self-catered or catered buffet. two hours of drop-in time...

none of this fancy dinner/meal things unless it's a seudas mitzvah lik ea wedding etc.

of coruse there are melb families who can afford such things and providing they give lots of tzedoko...let them continue.

iyh im going ot have this policy - why feed the community when 50 percent of them can afford to feed me more than I can??
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 4:59 pm
To me the worst is extra big bar & bas mitsvot, unless you don’t have many children and you manage to keep the emphasis on the mitsvos part... you can’t also pay as big an engagement or wedding to 1 or 10 children, it's just not possible unless you're Rothschild... I think big parties are nice, but if it means going into debt a lot it’s not necessarily good or uself or worth it...
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 6:55 pm
Quote:

The only simcha I have made so far is my sons upsher, which I catered myself, so it wasn't a hugh expense. We just invited everyone we knew in the city.


Why do you have to ask so many people?

I just made a nice milchig supper after we came back from cutting his hair at whichever kever (grave) we went to, for us and grandparents. Zehu. I can assure you that both our sons who we've done this for so far were extremely excited over their new mitzvos of kippa, tzitzis and peyos.

For a bris we have made in my dh's kolel (venue = free), served tinned fish-balls, bought salads, bought cake and crackers and cut up veggies. I admit that someone with no help couldn't do this, since you're after birth, but my dh's parents set it up and some friends helped.

Bas mitzva - we made in our house for about 25-30 close family. My dd was delighted. I served milky - quiches, salads, pizza, melon, cakes and ice-cream. I made almost all of it myself (she helped too) and people called us afterwards to say how much they'd enjoyed it.
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mali




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 10:26 pm
Some people make big affairs, because they know the gifts will cover. I don't know about Bar-Mitzvahs and weddings, because we're not holding there yet, but I can tell you that for us it's well worth-it to make a Bris at a fancier place and invite more guests. One of our Brisses was on a Shabbos, and we had a small, local affair. Even though it wasn't expensive at all, we paid for every last bit of it from our own pockets. The next Bris was in a proper hall with fancy catering, and we invited a bunch of people. The checks we got covered the entire affair, and left us with spending money too.
So don't judge others for making lavish Simchas before you see the entire picture.
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shoy18




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 10:35 pm
mali wrote:
Some people make big affairs, because they know the gifts will cover. I don't know about Bar-Mitzvahs and weddings, because we're not holding there yet, but I can tell you that for us it's well worth-it to make a Bris at a fancier place and invite more guests. One of our Brisses was on a Shabbos, and we had a small, local affair. Even though it wasn't expensive at all, we paid for every last bit of it from our own pockets. The next Bris was in a proper hall with fancy catering, and we invited a bunch of people. The checks we got covered the entire affair, and left us with spending money too.
So don't judge others for making lavish Simchas before you see the entire picture.


Isnt that money suppose to go to the child?
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goldrose




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 10:59 pm
Quote:

Isnt that money suppose to go to the child?


supposed to? why? who decided that? the kid can't (always) have a lavish affair AND the gift money, too!
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shoy18




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 11:04 pm
goldrose wrote:
Quote:

Isnt that money suppose to go to the child?


supposed to? why? who decided that? the kid can't (always) have a lavish affair AND the gift money, too!


because when you have a child and people give gifts it has his name on it!

And who says the 8 day old baby wanted a LAVISH BRIS!!!
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goldrose




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 11:06 pm
shoy, I agree - dont make it lavish in teh first place. BUT, if after discussing with the person whose simcha it is (b"m, wedding) (obviously not baby), if the person wants a LAVISH affair, they may have to compromise and have the gift money go to pay for the affair.
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shoy18




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jul 08 2006, 11:13 pm
goldrose wrote:
shoy, I agree - dont make it lavish in teh first place. BUT, if after discussing with the person whose simcha it is (b"m, wedding) (obviously not baby), if the person wants a LAVISH affair, they may have to compromise and have the gift money go to pay for the affair.


I am not speaking of a Bar MItzvah or a wedding, Mali clearly spoke about a bris. I agree with you on if the child wants something special thier may have to be comprmises, but taking money from a baby just isnt fair
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