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Letting a newborn cry



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amother


 

Post Tue, Jun 08 2010, 3:33 pm
Okay, so I know that no one does CIO before a baby is at least four months or so (and some say older). I would never let my baby CIO that young, and in fact would rather not use it at all.

That said, those who say how horrible CIO is in general because your baby DOES remember and you're eroding his trust in you - What on EARTH do you do with two kids? I really try to give my toddler my full attention during pre-naptime and pre-bedtime routines. He gets really upset when the baby is there, or crying, or when my attention is on the baby during those times, and then he doesn't take a nap and is cranky for the rest of the day. And no, I can't have my dh or a neighbor come over every day for his naps (bedtime is sometimes easier).

I try to make sure my newborn is sleeping or at least happy when I go to put my toddler down for a nap, but VERY often he wakes up five minutes later - right as I start the nap routine. So now I've started putting him in a room where you can barely hear him cry from my toddler's room, closing the door, and then ignoring him for the five or ten minutes it takes me to put my toddler down and go through his whole routine. My toddler REALLY needs his sleep, but I feel like a horrible mother for letting my baby cry like that.

WWYD? And do you think I'm a horrible mother whose baby won't trust her? I'm especially interested in the opinion of those who think that CIO is cruel.
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 08 2010, 3:43 pm
I don't thing crying-it-out is cruel (assuming the baby is older) but I do NOT believe that you can leave a newborn alone for 5-10 minutes screaming just so you can have a normal nap-time routine. Your newborn (unlike older babies) is completely helpless and needs you to attend to every single one of his/her needs. Even something as simple as being uncomfortable and wanting to adjust position needs to be attended to by you.

It can be very stressful with a newborn around and unfortunately everyone has to learn to adjust, including your toddler. You may have to adjust the pre-nap routine to include your newborn, and perhaps save bedtime as special one-on-one time (when you can possibly get someone else to help with your newborn). You can also try to save special time for your toddler for those times that your baby is sleeping or happy, even if it's not immediately pre-nap time.

You can also try to figure out ways to keep your baby calm for the time it takes to put your toddler to sleep. Make sure your baby is well, fed, burped and clean beforehand. You can try to put the baby in a baby swing, bouncy seat, or try carrying the baby in a baby carrier, so your hands are free for yout toddler.

I do think it's okay to put the babby down for a minuter or two, even if he's screaming if you need to pick up your toddler foe some reason, help him in the bathroom or something like that.

Good luck, and you know that this stage will eventually pass.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Jun 08 2010, 3:49 pm
Sigh. I tried having him in a carrier - my toddler went ballistic because the baby was STILL crying unless I stood up and bounced him. He can sometimes be happy in a swing or bouncy, but very often as soon as I get him happy and get my toddler to his room, he's screaming again.

The problem is NOT that I need special time with my toddler. I have that special time when the baby is sleeping, as you said. The problem is that I need my toddler to nap, or he's a wreck for the rest of the day. And he gets really agitated when he hears the baby screaming or when I'm trying to calm down the baby - this is only for his naptime/bedtime routine. The few times that I tried this, he got all riled up, didn't nap, and was not himself for the rest of the day. I can't do that every day, he really needs that nap.

Is there a way out of this? Honestly, I also let my newborn cry soon after birth when I was having, erm, problems going to the bathroom and just needed a few minutes in there NOT holding the baby because I was in serious pain and no one was around to hold him while I, erm, did what I had to do...

Felt guilty then, feel guilty now. But I can't think of any way out of it, other than having a miserable toddler every day from early afternoon on...
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c.c.cookie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 1:20 am
I would explain to toddler that sometimes she has mommy to herself, and sometimes she has to she you with the baby. Then, whenever baby is asleep, make sure to give toddler some good alone time together. Make sure she's aware of this "just me and mommy" time. But when baby is up, she has to know that you're also his mommy (I'm sorry if I'm getting genders mixed up here, but you get the point.) If she cries - let HER cry. She's old enough to understand, and she won't feel abandoned. (I'm not against letting a baby cry, generally, but in this case, I think it's detrimental to toddler's chinuch.) Good luck!
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mrs.morah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 1:37 am
I think the CIO method is very cruel. I dont really care what other pl say. I held my baby day in and out. Everyone would tell me I'm spoiling him. But K"H my once I feed my baby his nigh meal I lay him to sleep in the crib and he's asleep within 5 min. NO CRYING. I speak to him, tell him hes' going to sleep. Say shema and this works for me also for naps. Hes only 8 months but he can play alone in his crib for up to 30-45 min if I need him to stay there while I clean or something. I feel like I established a very close relationship with him and built his confidence in knowing he is in a safe environment. My baby knows the second he cries, someone will come. He does NOT cry often but actually when he NEEDS something. I know for a fact that hes either tired,hungry or stuck ( hes crawling so sometimes he crawls into places where he cant get out). I think your toddler needs attention too though. Maybe you can try using an incentive like a prize. Before naps tell your toddler that if she/he listens nicely and is very quiet she will get a prize. Give her a choice of 2 prizes, toddlers love picking. If she doesnt listen you cannot give her anything. Try reading a book singing a song ( while you have your baby close to you) Maybe you can say "show the baby how big girls sleep nicely! Be very excited abt it and after evry successful turn out give her A LOT A LOT of compliments that will reinforce the good behavior. Maybe buy a tape and let her listen to it only if she is quiet and stays in her room. Hatzlacha
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 10:58 am
I'm not sure that anyone who responded actually read my original response. The problem is NOT that my toddler demands attention. My toddler is actually very good with the baby, great at self-entertainment, etc. And it's not like the toddler intentionally stays up because the baby is getting attention. Hearing the baby cry just riles up my toddler so that naptime just DOESN'T happen. Toddler is still in a crib, so it's not like coming out of the room is a problem. My toddler is perfectly find playing happily in the crib for an hour - but still doesn't get a nap unless I go through the bedtime routine "just so" and limit any distractions - such as a crying baby. I don't think that incentives would work - first off all, he's JUST two, not really old enough for incentives yet. Second of all, it's not that he intentionally doesn't go to sleep, or that he rebels against lying in his crib. It's that psychologically he really needs that quiet, non-agitated time before he goes to sleep. It's always been like that. If someone random walked into the room in the middle of our naptime routine, I knew that he was almost for sure not going to take that nap because he got excited that the person (be it a grandparent, a neighbor, whoever) was there and just couldn't calm down to go to sleep. Is my toddler the only one like this?

FTR, the "newborn" is over a month. I still consider him a newborn, but I guess he's not quite anymore.
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happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:03 am
can you have someone come over and hold your baby in another room while you put your toddler to sleep? or can you wear your newborn, or would that be a distraction. I have noisemakers in my kids room so they dont hear other noises, and that can be really helpful, however I wouldnt let a newborn (or any baby if possible) cry without taking care of them (holding, feedin,g changing, whatever it is they want and need) but I totally get what you are saying! I went through it with all three of my kids at nap times when the other was a newborn... its tough but it will pass... for each child diff solutiosn worked. for my oldest she liked music tapes and it helped her while I was with the baby, for the next, he wanted me to lie with him, so I put the newborn swing by his room with soft music and made sure he was well fed first (even if the nao waiteid 5 more minutes) but if nothing would work, I would see if someone can come hold your baby so you can be with your toddler for a bit.

goodluck I know its tough but it will pass! Wink
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frimamom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:10 am
can you get him used to something so he will know, now its time to sleep?? ds is 2 months old and knows that when he gets his pacifier and a blanket, he goes to sleep!
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:38 am
amother wrote:
I'm not sure that anyone who responded actually read my original response. The problem is NOT that my toddler demands attention. My toddler is actually very good with the baby, great at self-entertainment, etc. And it's not like the toddler intentionally stays up because the baby is getting attention. Hearing the baby cry just riles up my toddler so that naptime just DOESN'T happen. Toddler is still in a crib, so it's not like coming out of the room is a problem. My toddler is perfectly find playing happily in the crib for an hour - but still doesn't get a nap unless I go through the bedtime routine "just so" and limit any distractions - such as a crying baby. I don't think that incentives would work - first off all, he's JUST two, not really old enough for incentives yet. Second of all, it's not that he intentionally doesn't go to sleep, or that he rebels against lying in his crib. It's that psychologically he really needs that quiet, non-agitated time before he goes to sleep. It's always been like that. If someone random walked into the room in the middle of our naptime routine, I knew that he was almost for sure not going to take that nap because he got excited that the person (be it a grandparent, a neighbor, whoever) was there and just couldn't calm down to go to sleep. Is my toddler the only one like this?

FTR, the "newborn" is over a month. I still consider him a newborn, but I guess he's not quite anymore.


I can't speak for anyone else who responded, but the point that I was trying to make was just that everyone needs to adapt to the situation, including your toddler. He was the only child for some time, so he got used to having his very specific routines to be "just so". He may just have to learn to go to sleep without the rituals for a little while (until your baby calms down a little), or if he won't sleep, then he may just not need the nap that badly. If he were really that tired, then he would probably fall asleep, especially if he's willing to sit in his crib for an hour. If he's two, then he is definitely at an age where some kids start giving up naps completely, and it often does mean that they are a little crankier in the evenings because they're tired. Incentives definitely work at this age, but I'm not sure that it would work to actually make your child fall asleep. It might get him to stay in his crib (which you say isn't a problem), but it's very hard to force a person to fall asleep.

By the way, one month is still considered a newborn, and even a couple of months older than that I wouldn't let a baby cry for this reason. It's not a necessity. You may feel that your toddler needs to sleep, but I don't think that it's a necessity for your toddler to have very specific rituals that can't be disrupted for any reason. It's not the same as needing to attend to bodily functions, or needing to change your toddler's diaper or get him dressed (all times when you may need to put down a screaming baby for a few minutes), but you're talking about letting your baby scream so that you can reinforce rituals that your toddler would be better off without.

I would just say that the best you can do is to try to adjust your toddler to a new routine (try some of the ideas that others gave), and if it that doesn't work, then he just might be giving up his nap.
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:45 am
You said you wanted the opinions of those who think cio is cruel, so I guess you want to be told not to let your baby cry. I do not let my babies cry it out. I believe it is cruel. So here goes:

1- Your toddler has to get used to being a big brother. That includes nap time. The baby exists even at nap time, and his nap time routine may have to change. It may take some crying on his part. But if you are there with him, holding the baby while you put him in, it should be doable.

2- I've held my baby while bathing my girls, while using the bathroom, and doing just about everything else. I've nursed my baby while running after my toddler who loved making trouble back then. You get the hang of it eventually. Some babies like being worn, and that could be a tremendous help. Unfortunately, my difficult babies weren't satasfied with being worn. They demanded my hands and they got them- at least one of them, while the other did everything else I had to do.

3- Keep in mind that the newborn stage doesn't last forever. As the baby gets older, he may become happier as he learns to play with toys and entertain himself. But for now, he can not and he needs you. The newborn stage is critical for babies, as that is when they learn that their cries are responded to, so they should cry when they need something. Otherwise, they may not bother crying when they need something, because they figure it won't help anyway. Even if they still cry, they will likely be more insecure because they worry that their needs will not always be met. Kids who's needs are met and who's cries are answered grow into confident, healthy children who are strongly bonded with their parents. They are able to trust that their parents are there for them- even at naptime- and they know they are in good hands.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 12:52 pm
I'm going to be the lone voice here.

I think it is okay. I don't think 5 - 10 minutes is cruel when you are focusing on your toddler.

You are not letting your child CIO. You are putting your toddler down for a nap and then picking your baby back up once the toddler is settled.

Why should a toddler be forced to all the sudden change their routine just because they get a new sibling.
Their entire life has been shifted upside down, and they are too young to realize why all the sudden mommy is giving this new baby all this attention and the toddler is loosing some. At least let him keep something.
Its not like he is 10. He is less then 2. How can you expect him to understand that he is no longer a baby? And that he can longer keep is naptime routine. I think that is completely unfair.

And to tell the mother of a toddler and a newborn to have her toddler give up his nap - that is plain mean - if anything a mother at this point needs her toddler to sleep.

Maybe you can try putting your newborn into a swing or bouncer when putting your toddler to sleep. Or swaddle your newborn and put on some white noise so he'll settle then. Or try nursing your newborn 20 minutes before putting your toddler to sleep, maybe that will settle him. It would probably be less stressful for you to put your toddler to sleep if your newborn was sleeping as well.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 1:14 pm
I *do* think that its cruel to leave a month-old baby to cry for even a few minutes unless completely necessary.

Your toddler is going through an adjustment phase, learning to live with a new sibling. It will take time. But remember, even at 2, she can understand *mommy will be back in a couple of minutes* The baby cannot.

Can you make the toddler part of the baby's naptime ritual -- we put baby down together, we read him a book together. Then, after baby is asleep, move into toddler's ritual. I understand that baby will sometimes wake up during toddler's ritual, but that should not be an everyday occurrence. If it is, then maybe move toddler's naptime to 1/2 an hour or 45 minutes into the baby's, and the time between can be your special big girl time.
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 09 2010, 7:40 pm
sky wrote:
I'm going to be the lone voice here.

I think it is okay. I don't think 5 - 10 minutes is cruel when you are focusing on your toddler.

You are not letting your child CIO. You are putting your toddler down for a nap and then picking your baby back up once the toddler is settled.

Why should a toddler be forced to all the sudden change their routine just because they get a new sibling.
Their entire life has been shifted upside down, and they are too young to realize why all the sudden mommy is giving this new baby all this attention and the toddler is loosing some. At least let him keep something.
Its not like he is 10. He is less then 2. How can you expect him to understand that he is no longer a baby? And that he can longer keep is naptime routine. I think that is completely unfair.

And to tell the mother of a toddler and a newborn to have her toddler give up his nap - that is plain mean - if anything a mother at this point needs her toddler to sleep.

Maybe you can try putting your newborn into a swing or bouncer when putting your toddler to sleep. Or swaddle your newborn and put on some white noise so he'll settle then. Or try nursing your newborn 20 minutes before putting your toddler to sleep, maybe that will settle him. It would probably be less stressful for you to put your toddler to sleep if your newborn was sleeping as well.


You're right that the op isn't letting her baby "cry-it-out" because the theory behind crying-it-out is that you're teaching your baby to self-soothe and learn to sleep on their own. In this case, the op is just letting her baby cry. She's not trying to teach the baby anything at all, which, at least in my mind, makes the situation worse.

I just wanted to respond also that I did not tell the op to give up her toddlers nap. I was recommending that it would be healthy to not feed into such a rigid naptime routine. Screaming baby or not, it would be much easier if her child would learn to go to sleep with a slightly more flexible routine. Unfortunately, trying to change a pattern of behavior will definitely be disruptive in the short term, and my point was that it's possible that her toddler just isn't that tired anymore which makes it that much more difficult for him to fall asleep at naptime.

Given the fact that the op's toddler is perfectly happy just playing in the crib for an hour by himself, then if she still needs that respite that she would normally get while her toddler is napping, then she can still try to put him down to nap (without letting her infant cry all alone) and then leave the toddler in the crib for an hour or so. If he's tired at that time, he'll probably fall asleep, if not, she'll still get the hour of respite.

Unfortunately, the very nature of having a new baby means a disruption in the routines of everyone's lives. The parents and the siblings really don't have a choice, they have to accomodate the baby, even when it interferes. Unless there is another adult around, the baby is just going to have to tag along for naptime routine, and I agree with others that this is actually good chinuch for the toddler. A two year old can understand this (not in words, but by example). Just watch the way that 2 year olds play with their own dolls (their babies) and you'll see that they very closely mimic the way their parents care for babies. I also don' think that doing this will foster any extra rivalry between the siblings. You are not trying to neglect your toddler, just teaching him to adapt.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 10 2010, 6:41 am
amother wrote:
Okay, so I know that no one does CIO before a baby is at least four months or so (and some say older). I would never let my baby CIO that young, and in fact would rather not use it at all.

That said, those who say how horrible CIO is in general because your baby DOES remember and you're eroding his trust in you - What on EARTH do you do with two kids? I really try to give my toddler my full attention during pre-naptime and pre-bedtime routines. He gets really upset when the baby is there, or crying, or when my attention is on the baby during those times, and then he doesn't take a nap and is cranky for the rest of the day. And no, I can't have my dh or a neighbor come over every day for his naps (bedtime is sometimes easier).

I try to make sure my newborn is sleeping or at least happy when I go to put my toddler down for a nap, but VERY often he wakes up five minutes later - right as I start the nap routine. So now I've started putting him in a room where you can barely hear him cry from my toddler's room, closing the door, and then ignoring him for the five or ten minutes it takes me to put my toddler down and go through his whole routine. My toddler REALLY needs his sleep, but I feel like a horrible mother for letting my baby cry like that.

WWYD? And do you think I'm a horrible mother whose baby won't trust her? I'm especially interested in the opinion of those who think that CIO is cruel.


I could have written this myself. OMG I so know what yu are talking about. In the past 4 months, there had been dozens occasions that my baby had to cry when I was attending to my toddler's needs.

All you Anti CIO, what would you do if the bay starts crying when you are in the middle of changing toddler's diaper which is dripping sh** and if you leave him you gonna have to clean up the whole room?!?!? And many other occasions? A 3yo toddler and 1.5 yo toddler are different too, and you can't always explain to your 1.5 yo what you can to a 3yo.

Come on! How many people have been in these situations? Millions? All those babies who are siblings of toddlers? And they all are scarred for life? Just because you left them for 5 minutes? You must be kidding.

When I am alone with both, and one of them need to sleep, they both go into a double buggy and we go out, until one of them or both fall asleep. But again, it is a bad sleep habit and you don't want that.

When your baby is older, try to establish the schedule in such a way, that your baby goes to sleep first, while toddler is occupying herself. MAybe they should go to sleep 30 min after each other, this way you gonna get some child free time
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 10 2010, 8:26 am
I also have a toddler (toddlers actually) and a newborn. And I try to make sure never to let my newborn cry. But it happens sometimes. Like other posters wrote, I am changing a diaper or in the bathroom or something...I minimize it and rush to the baby but I really think she will survive crying a minute or two or even three! And I totally get you about naptime - if my kids don't nap we all have a horrible afternoon. I would try to gradually get the toddler used to having the baby in the room, in a baby carrier or whatever, but in the meantime, I don't think the world will end if the baby cries for a few short minutes. Keep it short though, and do whatever you can to make sure the baby is happy and settled beforehand...good luck
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 10 2010, 1:29 pm
amother wrote:

All you Anti CIO, what would you do if the bay starts crying when you are in the middle of changing toddler's diaper which is dripping sh** and if you leave him you gonna have to clean up the whole room?!?!? And many other occasions? A 3yo toddler and 1.5 yo toddler are different too, and you can't always explain to your 1.5 yo what you can to a 3yo.

Come on! How many people have been in these situations? Millions? All those babies who are siblings of toddlers? And they all are scarred for life? Just because you left them for 5 minutes? You must be kidding.


Do all babies have to cry without comfort occasionally? Yes.
Does that mean we should put them in a different room and go where we can't hear them for 15 minutes every day? By all means, no.

You have no choice about putting the baby down to change a toddler's diaper, so you live with it and you feel bad. You talk to the baby and try to reassure her that you are there and you'll pick her up as soon as you can. Putting her where you can't hear her for 15 minutes a day because the toddler doesn't want you to hold her right now doesn't fit into that catergory.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 10 2010, 1:45 pm
Is there any way that you can schedule a feeding during the time when you need quiet for your toddler? I always used to nurse the baby when I was putting the older ones down.

Of course, that doesn't work if your routine for your toddler includes your lying down with them.
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simchat




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 10 2010, 3:59 pm
I have to agree with sky. I honestly believe that a stressed out mother makes a stressed out home, therefore unhappy spouse and kids! I only have one baby and she likes being held all the time! I was always a bundle of nerves til my mother said, let her cry for 4 minutes! I admit, it was hard hearing her cry (and still is!) but sometimes I restrain myself from picking her up, which would result in me walking around the house with her til my back, shoulders and arms hurt and I`m so wound up, I`m ready to explode (which helps neither of us), and YES she actually falls asleep, usually BEFORE 4 minutes and is perfectly happy when she wakes up!!! (obviously, when she doesnt stop after a few minutes, starts screaming etc I do pick her up)

this has made me way calmer and therefore, we`re all happier Very Happy

if there`s a toddler who needs a nap, I totally think it`s ok if this means the rest of the family can be in a healthy routine and the mother can be calm, happy and rested.
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