Need info/ideas re: Rechovot, Nof Ayalon, Carmiel

chanchy123

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 2:13 pm

November wrote:

Do you know anythiing about Mevo Choron regarding hashkafa and educational options?

Yes, it's a moshav that is more to the right in DL terms. All women must cover all hair, I'm pretty sure no TVs are allowd. They have a kollel there, which is supposed to be very good.
I think it started off as a PAI moshav, but like most PAI yishuvim it has become DL (or what you'd call chardal here). This could be a good option for all you guys.

chanchy123

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 2:15 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Based on where it is, I'd say Zionistic shtark DL/Torani-Chardal. It's a bit "out there" in terms of the neighboring villages, which aren't Jewish ones, if you get my drift. Gorgeous scenery. Some agriculture. Some people work out of the Yishuv. Good weather - it's a bit hilly.

I think you may be confusing Mevo Choron with Beit choron.
Mevo Choron is not hilly at all and is within the Green Line.

chanchy123

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 2:23 pm

November wrote:

Truth be told, I'm not completely sure I get it myself. Does it necessarily mean that learning secular studies is discouraged for boys, starting either in cheder or in high school?

YES!!!!
That's exactly what it means to be chareidi in Israel. If you want your boys to get a well-rounded education both in secular and Jewish studies you do not want to send them to chareidi schools. There a handful of chareidi yeshiva high scools and many graduates continue living a torah life that is non-chareidi (many of our good friends).
In Israel, the type of lifestyle you are looking for is just something else, ignore the titles call it "Shmuel" instead of yeshivish Wink

.
I don't why the whole Zionist thing is such a turn off for you. I'm assuming you believe that living in EY is a good thing and that this is the place for the Jewish people to live. That's the essence of Zionism and you may differ on various details, but that's the basic idea.
What does being Zionist mean to you? Maybe it means something else in the US than it means here, like chareidi means something else there. Please share your hashkafa and feelings regarding Israel.

Tamiri

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 2:26 pm

chanchy123 wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

I think you may be confusing Mevo Choron with Beit choron.
Mevo Choron is not hilly at all and is within the Green Line.

You are probably right. November please disregard whatever I wrote about Mevo Choron. I got mixed up.

amother

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 3:53 pm

chanchy123 wrote:

I don't why the whole Zionist thing is such a turn off for you. I'm assuming you believe that living in EY is a good thing and that this is the place for the Jewish people to live. That's the essence of Zionism and you may differ on various details, but that's the basic idea.

That's Judaism. Zionism goes beyond that and makes the State of Israel part of its Avodas Hashem. It's a substantial difference in Hashkafah to those who have problems with celebrating the State of Israel. I don't know whether or not OP has an issue with this, but it's misleading to make it seem like it's no big deal. It can be a big deal.

This is a generalization, and I'll undoubtedly be bashed for this, but you may take this as my perception and no more that that if you like. DL communities: the conversations at Shabbos tables are of politics and the State of Israel. In Chardal communities: the dominating Torah topic is settling the land. Chareidi communities: the divrei Torah are about Torah, many facets of it.

Mrs Bissli

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 4:21 pm

[quote="amother]This is a generalization, and I'll undoubtedly be bashed for this, but you may take this as my perception and no more that that if you like. DL communities: the conversations at Shabbos tables are of politics and the State of Israel. In Chardal communities: the dominating Torah topic is settling the land. Chareidi communities: the divrei Torah are about Torah, many facets of it.[/quote]

Not true at all. Majority of our Israeli friends and family are DL. Shabbat conversations are anything from mandane (kids schools, events that happened that week) but definitely dvar torah, discusssion on parsha and zmirot are main features.

Also, a good point about secular education/profession. OP, what is your/DH's feeling about your DS/DD serving hesdar yeshiva+ military/sherut leumi? You really won't get good positions at work without military services, at least looking at my nephews. Those who went to "prestigeous" units tend to get good jobs, either because their skills are sought after or because they're better connected.

amother

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 4:46 pm

Mrs Bissli wrote:

Not true at all. Majority of our Israeli friends and family are DL. Shabbat conversations are anything from mandane (kids schools, events that happened that week) but definitely dvar torah, discusssion on parsha and zmirot are main features. [/quote]

You don't even live in Israel. How many Shabbats have you spent with these relatives and friends? Perhaps they were special occasions (they must have been special, at the very least because you were there to join them), so they decided to give over some divrei Torah.

We're Chareidi, live in a very Chareidi neighborhood, and rarely spend Shabbos anywhere but here. But I have done a lot of kiruv connected to an institution where many of the girls came from DL or MO families. I heard all the time that the Shabbos table discussions were either about politics or movies. Zmirot usually mixed singing.

I don't have any message here, because I know little about most of the communities mentioned in this thread, but I do know about DL life from my contacts and girls that I mentored. And I know all about being Chareidi in Israel.

amother

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 4:48 pm

Trying again...

Mrs Bissli wrote:

You don't even live in Israel. How many Shabbats have you spent with these relatives and friends? Perhaps they were special occasions (they must have been special, at the very least because you were there to join them), so they decided to give over some divrei Torah.

We're Chareidi, live in a very Chareidi neighborhood, and rarely spend Shabbos anywhere but here. But I have done a lot of kiruv connected to an institution where many of the girls came from DL or MO families. I heard all the time that the Shabbos table discussions were either about politics or movies. Zmirot usually mixed singing.

I don't have any message here, because I know little about most of the communities mentioned in this thread, but I do know about DL life from my contacts and girls that I mentored. And I know all about being Chareidi in Israel.

Mrs Bissli

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 4:57 pm

amother wrote:

Trying again...
You don't even live in Israel. How many Shabbats have you spent with these relatives and friends? Perhaps they were special occasions (they must have been special, at the very least because you were there to join them), so they decided to give over some divrei Torah.

We're Chareidi, live in a very Chareidi neighborhood, and rarely spend Shabbos anywhere but here. But I have done a lot of kiruv connected to an institution where many of the girls came from DL or MO families. I heard all the time that the Shabbos table discussions were either about politics or movies. Zmirot usually mixed singing.
I don't have any message here, because I know little about most of the communities mentioned in this thread, but I do know about DL life from my contacts and girls that I mentored. And I know all about being Chareidi in Israel.

About 20 to 30 shabbatot so far (of course not in the same year). I don't think it's only on special occasions, DH's family definitely have shabbosdik table.
And yes it is mixed singing, that's why I wrote our friends and family are DL.

Just clarifying and answering your questions.

November

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 6:40 pm

OP here. I actually have stayed away from the topic of Zionism so far, but I see it's something I ought to weigh in on. For myself, I'm generally good with it. It's kind of like being a feminist: I'm comfortable saying that I'm a feminist, but politically I don't necessarily agree with the feminist movement and it's affects. I like to have an Israeli flag around. Does that make sense? In fact, so much of my love for Israel and desire to be there has stemmed from experiences with people who maintain a high standard of religious life, like telling divrei Torah on Shabbos (or Shabbat, whichever) and are also people who believe in settling the land. We do like our divrei Torah on shabbos! As for DH, he has more ambivalence about the whole Zionism thing. But the bottom line is that we would be very happy to have our very halachic, learned son (bli eyin harah- who is 8 now) serve in the army as long as we felt that it would not compromise his ability or desire to be religious AT ALL. My husband would serve in the army if he were young enough. (Poor guy, I feel like I am talking about him behind his back....)

Tablepoetry

Mon, Jun 21 2010, 11:53 pm

It sounds like you could definitely fit into a chardal community, although perhaps not one of the overly nationisltic ones.
For the record, we are a DL family in Israel and we never ever talk politics. OK - sometimes 'current events' like the Emmanuel case but never Netanyahu or Obama stuff. Ever - just not our cup of tea.
Although we do have mixed singing, as one poster mentioned above - but then again, we are not chardal, and most DL do.

LisaS

Tue, Jun 22 2010, 6:00 am

We live in Mevo Horon. Feel free to ask any questions.

There are a number of americans who have lived in the country for many years, but everyone is living an Israeli lifestyle. We do have a "chug anglit" for english speaking children, but just a few families have participated. The people are incredibly incredibly nice here.

Religiously people are on a high level, but there is no compulsion, I.e. for example, the school has NO dress code whatsoever. None. Yet, everyone shows up dressed appropriately (within a range).

If anyone wants to visit, come one weekday at 4ish, we'll go for a walk, buy the kids an artik, and chat.

As for housing, it is tight, right now maybe one for sale and one rental available on the whole yishuv.

goldapoe

Tue, Jun 22 2010, 6:43 am

OP, November, can you share with us the ages of your children? That might help a bit. I made Aliya 6 years ago and had no idea what Chareidi really meant here. It is far from how you describe yourself and your husband and your goals for your children. Our eyes were opened up a lot to just how "frum" the DL/Chardal crowd is here. In the US they might be considered bordering on "Yeshivish" because Torah is what guides their lives. So the kippot are white (and large), the women wear mitpachot instead of falls. Torah is at the center of their homes.

A disgusting chutzpa what "a coward" hiding behind "amother" wrote that she HEARD from some girls are discussed at our Shabbos tables. I have been to homes where there is more Torah than politics and to some where there is more politics than Torah. But it is unacceptable and Loshon Hora to have written this. This goes beyond "generalization". It is pure Sinat Chinam. Check your calendar. On mine we are approaching the 3 weeks. One would think a "chareidi" like yourself would be too busy listening to all the divrei Torah in your home and not participating in Zmirot to speaks so negatively about another group of FRUM Jews.

All imamothers out there: How on earth will we ever be Zoche to rebuild the Beit HaMikdash with posts like this? Is there no way to help "November" find a new home in EY without bashing each other?? Sheesh.

shabri

Tue, Jun 22 2010, 6:45 am

lst wrote:

shabri wrote:

amother wrote:

how acceptable are tvs in nof ayalon? if we dont own a tv, would we be in the minority?

Actually I am 98% sure that in Nof Ayalon you have to sign that you WON'T have a tv. I know thats what turned my sister off to it.

Also what abt Moshav Mattityahu?

There are lots of people in Nof Ayalon with TVs.

Is Nof Ayalon the one in the Gush or the one near Yeshivat Shaalavim. If its the one near Yeshivat Shaalavim then my sister was def told they have to sign that they don't have a tv. If not I'm mixing it up

chanchy123

Tue, Jun 22 2010, 6:51 am

November wrote:

November, you may not know this but you totally are the epitome of DL.
Don't worry, you'll fit in perfectly fine in any DL community.

chanchy123

Tue, Jun 22 2010, 6:54 am

shabri wrote:

lst wrote:

shabri wrote:

amother wrote:

how acceptable are tvs in nof ayalon? if we dont own a tv, would we be in the minority?

Actually I am 98% sure that in Nof Ayalon you have to sign that you WON'T have a tv. I know thats what turned my sister off to it.

Also what abt Moshav Mattityahu?

There are lots of people in Nof Ayalon with TVs.

Yup, it's near Shaalavim, my SIL lives there and I wouldn't be surprised if this were true.

Tablepoetry

Tue, Jun 22 2010, 9:43 am

Inspired wrote:

I also agree that you sound DL to me.

For the sake of accuracy, and since the op doesn't seem so familiar with all the definitions here, DL spans a rather large spectrum. You have strict chardalniks who cover their hair all the time and whose husbands/sons go to hesder, and you have more liberal/flexible/modern DL, where the women don't necessarily cover their hair at all. Some are more nationalistic, some less. And yet all these groups would define themselves as DL.

Some cities have a mix of this spectrum, some veer more to the stricter DL (like Nof Ayalon) and some to the more liberal DL (like Ra'anana).
So when looking for a place to live, DL probably isn't precise enough of a label; chardal may be better.