Would YOU do this if you had the money?

amother

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 7:06 pm

I am really frustrated. My husband and I are looking for a house as we are getting too small for our apartment. We are also sick of flushing money down the toilet towards rent. We are very frustrated as it has been very difficult to find a house. We live in a community where the frum Jews live in a very concentrated area. We have been looking for houses, but it seems that almost everything decent has been bought by other frum Jews looking to make a profit on other frum Jews. They usually fix up the homes a bit, but are waiting to sell them until the economy turns around and they can make money on it. I know they have the right to do so, but it just seems like its not mentchlich. They are taking away the opportunity from young families looking to settle down. Why can't they invest in other neighborhoods? I am obviously very biased here. Am I being completely irrational? If you had the money would you invest in homes in frum neighborhoods or would you see something wrong with it?

BusyBeeMommy

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 7:13 pm

That is to add that if you want, you can try to personally appeal to a homeowner with whatever you posted about being a young family looking to buy an affordable home, and see if they will want to sell to you. But the cold harsh reality is that what they are doing is perfectly acceptable.

amother

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 7:14 pm

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

IMHO, they have the right to do whatever they want if they own the property. It is 100% honest and legal.

I completely agree with you. The question here is, is it mentchlich and if you had the money would you do it?

Raizle

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 7:16 pm

I'm not sure what to say. In our community it often happens that when more then one frum person turn up to an Auction and see each other they confer with each other what their interest in the home is and what they plan on bidding up to.
Investors have been known to step aside for people looking for a home, we personally have experienced that.

BusyBeeMommy

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 7:17 pm

amother wrote:

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

IMHO, they have the right to do whatever they want if they own the property. It is 100% honest and legal.

I completely agree with you. The question here is, is it mentchlich and if you had the money would you do it?

Why not? Just because they have money doesn't mean they are not looking to make more. Why is it wrong for someone to try to make more money honestly despite already having a lot of money? As long as it's honest and legal, I see no problem with it being mentschlich.

At the same time, I feel your predicament about being able to find affordable housing. I live in Brooklyn, and I know that I cannot afford a home here unless DH and I work night and day and never see our children, so when we feel ready to become home owners, we know that we will have to look elsewhere, with cheaper housing.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 7:38 pm

Everyone does it. It's a fact of life.

That's why the boundaries surrounding the Jewish neighborhoods keep expanding. Frum people looking for affordable housing try to buy houses in neighborhoods adjacent to the frum ones. If you are the first person on your block to be frum, chances are within 10 years other frum families will move in, too.

Last edited by amother on Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

HindaRochel

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 7:53 pm

Their money, their house, their right to earn more.
What would I do?
Really, I keep praying I have enough money to be able to give someone who doesn't have a house a home, but so far we are the ones who need the help.

But I don't see that I have a right to tell someone not to become more wealthy. No one has an obligation to limit their potential wealth because others are impoverished.

wtvr

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 8:13 pm

Have you tried contacting the owners? Many investors, who are in the "house flipping" business usually want to sell right away, because they take out big loans with adjustable rates that balloon, and it doesn't usually pay for them to hold on to it, because then it starts costing them a lot. I would try to see if any of these individuals would sell to you, even if they houses are not on the market yet.

718

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 8:15 pm

Duh to all posters above!
Their money their right, but thats not what the op is asking
I know a lot of people that own high value properties in central areas and would only sell it to people from the community.
I think a lot of the owners themselves would feel like sell-outs if they did sell to "oursiders"
For example: there are some in williamsburg who would sell to Yuppies but plenty wouldnt dream of it- even if they pay big bucks.

Rodent

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 9:04 pm

I know it's legal and all that but I understand where you're coming from completely OP.
But then I personally think that people should only be allowed to own one home and the government own a certain amount for rental purposes that have prices kept at reasonable levels. It always seems unfair to me when people have holiday homes and investment homes and those who NEED housing can't afford anything because the prices are pushed up by inflated numbers of buyers vs owner/occupiers. Unrealistic? Absolutely. Still bugs me.

And I'm happy that your house was affordable marina. I don't think anywhere near a synagogue would be affordable in Australia full stop. I think we're in about the cheapest area and it's never going to happen.

Raizle

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 9:33 pm

Rodent wrote:

I don't mean to be nasty or anything but what you wrote here sounds kinda like communist Russia.
Hashem gave more to some less to others. There is a reason and a rhyme to everything
People buying investment homes are in all likelyhood in a position to help their own children, give tzedoka give to insititutions etc

Rodent

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 9:41 pm

I am not a communist. But I despise straight capitalism, it's cut-throat and uncaring. Socialism doesn't have to be nasty. I'm thankful to live in a country with socialised medicine, education, financial assistance for those who need it etc. I just see housing as an aspect of life which is important for everyone and don't like it being taken advantage of by the super rich. It's not the only way to invest.

Atali

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 9:54 pm

If no one could own an investment property, then by default the only one who could rent out property would be the government. The government wouldn't just have some properties to rent out--they would control the total supply.

This would lead to a few obvious problems:

1. There would be zero free-market competition in the rental market. As a result the government would have little motivation to fix problems whether they be physical (broken faucet) or procedural (inefficient service).

2. The supply of rental properties and the prices charged for them would be in total government control and would be affected by political considerations. They would also have uniform rules about occupancy which would likely create problems for large families.

3. If the properties are made to be "affordable" (below market rent) then fewer people would want to buy (since it would likely not make financial sense) and the demand for rental properties would increase beyond supply. This would lead to waiting lists while new properties are being built. Where, exactly would the waiting list families live if no private rentals are available?

4. Following the logic in point #3, eventually the majority of Australian families would become tenants of the government, which gives politicians a very easy way to buy votes.

5. If they are at or above market rent, then what does government ownership provide besides headaches?

mammele26

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 9:54 pm

I think it's great that people can own as much and as many as they want (I hope to one day!). But I do find something wrong with doing business on other pp's cheshbon. Meaning, I feel it's wrong if my doing business will mean that people will have less to eat/drink. Same goes to decent housing. You want to do business? No Problem! Do it in the commercial world, in other type neighborhoods, etc. Oh, and then BUY (to own, not sell to make money) as many as you want in our neighborhood. Not on the cheshbon of struggling families. I know when and if I have the means, I will not be doing business like that. I'm not commenting on whether these people are wrong. I know that I won't do it. I could never live knowing that in fact I was able to make it easier for yidden and made it harder instead. And decent housing isn't a luxury. It's a necessity. I don't think the wealth should be distributed. I'm very against that. But I think it's selfish to not think about those who are less fortunate.

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