Sending boys away for yeshiva

random

Tue, Aug 31 2010, 3:52 pm

Forgive me if this is inappropriate - it's really a curious question, brought on by a discussion a friend and I were having (neither of us have children remotely near the age of high school/yeshiva, so it's not practical for us yet, although it may be for others).

What do you think about sending your 13 y.o. away to yeshiva (out of wherever town you live in)? Is it a good thing to do? Why? How did you decide to do it/not do it? Did you feel that the rabbeim took your place as parents, or did they compliment your parenting? Did you feel that your son missed out by not being in his parents' home at such a young age?

(Again, if this is annoying as it comes from a young whipersnapper who has no idea what she's talking about, feel free to ignore Wink

)

amother

Tue, Aug 31 2010, 4:03 pm

I hope this isn't inappropriate, as I'm the friend.

I have two boys right now. They're young. Laugh if you must, but I dread the day that I have to make the decision about where they will go to high school. Not because I won't know which school to send them to, but because I grew up in an environment where kids stayed home until they graduated from high school. I'm now more yeshivish, and proudly so...but this is one aspect of yeshivish society that I have a very hard time understanding and agreeing with.

I think that kids need their parents. And that a 13-year-old is not an 18-year-old. And that sending them to a dorm, even with the best, most idealistic rabbeim, is asking for trouble. They will almost never see normal family life, they come home almost as guests, and their relationship with their parents for most of the year is relegated to a phone call. (For those who have talked to teenage boys on the phone, you know why I'm not impressed.)

My dh thinks I'm crazy. That's what's done. You send your boys away at 13. You just do. They need to be "independent."

I disagree. At age 13, they need their parents.

Isramom8

Tue, Aug 31 2010, 4:04 pm

I am smiling that you're as yet ignorant of the reality of living with teenage boys. Send them all out the day they hit 13 till they are ready for marriage, when their wives will take over.

JOKING (at least some days...)

Then again, my sons are home, like, ALL THE TIME - they take the bus in for Shabbosos, vacations, Tuesday night breaks, bein hazmanim, late days, extended weekends... Rolling Eyes

Last edited by Isramom8 on Tue, Aug 31 2010, 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

Isramom8

Tue, Aug 31 2010, 4:08 pm

random wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

That's why we're asking our wise elders who have been there 8)

Yeah well, teenage boys are the reason we appear "elder". Wink

LeahW

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 5:56 am

Isramom8 wrote:

random wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

That's why we're asking our wise elders who have been there 8)

Yeah well, teenage boys are the reason we appear "elder". Wink

Tablepoetry

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 6:11 am

I know dozens and dozens of men (age 40+) who were sent to the best boarding schools in their teens and who were absolutely miserable. We are talking about tough guys who later became combat soldiers, not pampered JAPS. I think kids need to be home during those years, even if they do keep to themselves, shut themselves up in their room or seem withdrawn. They still need the security of home and, yes, let's face it, the pampering. Especially the fridge.

Boarding schools are also a big risk these days. Even the best schools can have risky elements and there are enough horror stories running around.

I taught at a girls' boarding school for a decade. I will admit that some girls thrived there - the social, active ones. The others pined for home. So it does depend on the personality of the child.

I do have teen boys and they are staying home even though I had to make major comprises on school choice in order to do so.

Tamiri

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 10:22 am

When I was growing up in Israel, it was only the "nebachs" who stayed home and went to a local boys HS. The "good boys" ALL went away. Some suffered, some didn't. My brother also went away (he's part of that generation) and I don't think he'll want to do it to his sons. Back in the day, the better schools were the sleep-aways.
In my sons circle of friends, it's common to either... go away or stay home. There are very good schools either way, and parents generally go along with what the son desires.
I sent one son to a sleep away for 2 years and it was a big mistake. I won't be doing that to any of the others.
The bottom line is: it depends on the child/where the others are going/what the parents insist on.
You are actually smart to be thinking about this already.

PinkFridge

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 11:08 am

Rabbi Orlowek said that it's better to keep kids in a local yeshiva, even if not a perfect fit, rather than send away (I don't think he'd advocate public school though. And I don't know how where the tipping point is.).

The people I know who've made it work have chosen wisely for their sons, I.e. a really good fit, with good friends and relatives nearby, try to bring the kids home when possible and allowed, and go see the kids on their own turf.

All that said, I'm really, really grateful that we were able to keep our kids local.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Wed, Sep 01 2010, 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

TzenaRena

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 12:29 pm

amother wrote:

Many rabbanim and mechanchim are dead against it.
Some will even say to go for the (good, clean) public school but NOT send away.

No rav or mechanech from any circle I can think of would say THAT. Where are you from? If there are no local Yeshivos, and you aren't sending away, you need to MOVE to a different community!

As many have written it depends on your child's personality, the structure and focus of the local Yeshivos. We do send away, but our 13 yr. old is going to be home this year. I'm not totally satisfied with the yeshiva here, but I'll take advantage of the ability to be involved in his life at the moment. My 13 yr. old would totally go for OOT Yeshiva, but only with his "chevra". For now, that's okay with us, later on, chevra, or not, bezras Hashem he'll go .

As for personality, one of my son's is quieter, still he loved his yeshiva and it was wonderful for him. My next is more outgoing yet, he's the same kid that called me crying and homesick the first night in overnight camp at age 11 , in the end both camp, and yeshiva b"h worked out very well.

TzenaRena

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 12:50 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Isramom8!

amother wrote:

I think that kids need their parents. And that a 13-year-old is not an 18-year-old. And that sending them to a dorm, even with the best, most idealistic rabbeim, is asking for trouble. They will almost never see normal family life, they come home almost as guests, and their relationship with their parents for most of the year is relegated to a phone call. (For those who have talked to teenage boys on the phone, you know why I'm not impressed.)

yet, when they are home, I see why they need to be in Yeshiva. My son came home a month early for his sister's chasunah, correct that, arrived less than a week before the chasunah, but stayed all of Elul, instead of flying back to Yeshiva for almost a month, then coming back again for Tishrei. With the best of intentions, he couldn't learn the way he normally does, with so much going on around him. When in his overseas Yeshiva, my son called me religiously every week, for the mitzvah Wink

- he told me how hard it was to get to the phone,what with all his own shiurim aside from seder haYeshiva... But of course, that's exactly what I wanted for him!

My next calls me once in two weeks, then twice a week.... hint, for more frequent calls, don't send them with a lot of money.... Wink

Last edited by TzenaRena on Wed, Sep 01 2010, 3:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 1:16 pm

For some reason, I think that place might not be America....

BTW, I am very much in favor of sending boys to an in-town yeshiva at that age if available. As they get older, if the yeshiva is a terrible fit, you can look into other options, but not to send straight out for 9th grade if you can help it.

You can't always (I'm from way OOT) but in that case, it's better to send to a yeshiva with a known good supervision system and where things aren't really hefker.

amother

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 1:36 pm

I'm going to differ with the crowd. I also used to think that sending a boy away to dorm was a terrible thing, until I was forced to do ti, since there was no appropriate yeshiva nearby - it really depends on the boy, since it's not right for a quiet sensitive one, but there definitely are boys who thrive and flower away form home. It also depends, of course on which yeshiva you send to - there are those that really have the best interests of the boys at heart; you have to search for them.

I actually think that things have been vastly improving over the past several years, and undoubtedly will continue to get better.

amother

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 1:39 pm

OP's friend here.

So really, from looking at this thread, almost everyone has said that sending them away so young is not such a good idea.

TzenaRena, you were the only one I saw who gave the other side of the coin, and I appreciate that. I have a few questions however. First of all, how old is your son? Again, it's probably my background coloring things here, but is that truly a ninth grader speaking? Sounds more like a 12th grader or older, I'd think.

And second of all, he was home with no yeshiva, no chavrusa, and a ton of activity all around him. That wouldn't be the case if he were in a yeshiva in-town. I would have no problem (I hope - although I might change my mind when the time comes!) with my son leaving to yeshiva each morning at 6:30 to daven, getting back at 10:30 pm after night seder, spending three minutes talking to me or dh just out of derech eretz, and then going to sleep and starting again the next day. So he wouldn't be eating dinner with us (which obviously I'd prefer). He wouldnt' even be eating breakfast with us. But he'd be in the house. On Friday afternoons, when he has off, he'd be home. He'd be home every or almost every Shabbos. When he's sick, he's home; when his little siblings want a bit of play time with him, or his young brother wants to talk to him about something, he's THERE. He could learn with dh on Shabbos a bit (if the dynamics worked), he could give a dvar torah at the Shabbos table. He would be part of the family, even if his focus was on yeshiva and his learning.

That's what I want. And I think that your son's situation didn't represent that. It represented a high school boy with nothing to do all day and a lot of stimulation all around him. Of course he didn't have the same motivation to learn at the same level, and of course he was getting distracted. It would be different were he part of a yeshiva.

Farm - That's a very interesting perspective. I respect you for thinking so far in advance.

Is there anyone else who grew up with this concept and thinks that it's great? It really confuses me that so many people would think that this is normal and commendable.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Sep 01 2010, 1:44 pm

I am not against dorming as a general klal, but I do think it's good if possible for that dorm to be within reasonable distance at that age. With parents 20 minutes away, there is less likely for there to be problems not noticed.

My husband and his brothers all dormed at the local yeshiva, but if they needed to come home during the week, needed parents for appointments they were not comfortable attending themselves, etc they had that security net.