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-> Interesting Discussions
Hashem_Yaazor
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 10:35 am
It's the tone, more than the actual wording.
Instead of saying "I have never seen it", you can say "Really? I never knew that! That's different from how it is here"...
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Ruchel
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 10:42 am
The tone over the internet, in my third language, will be difficult to do...
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Ruchel
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 10:52 am
German, I learned it for 8 years. I was good until I started English and neglected it totally.
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amother
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 11:54 am
louche wrote: | amother wrote: | I feel bad for her that she is being picked on. She seems like a great girl. As far as judaism, doing what she knows to her level and cares too. At least she is doing this to start up a career and not just to win some $$$ like various degrees of types of orthodox jews have done on other shows. I can list off many really very orthodox jews who make headlines in the news way worse than girl in skimpy trying to start untzius career. |
Doing something wrong is less objectionable if one is doing it as a career than if one does it once to win a prize? By extension of your reasoning, it is less objectionable for a person to eat tref on a continuing basis because he's interning in a tref catering business than it would be for him to eat tref once on a TV reality show. The logic escapes me. |
I mean it is seen outside of our insular community as less of a chilul hashem. And that it doesn't seem like she is doing any less afa judaism on the show than in her real life.
So why is it her fault she was born and grew up in her family and not in a chareidi rabbi's family?
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 12:14 pm
That's the issue. It's not about who sees what as a chillul Hashem. It's a chillul Hashem regardless of whether chareidi Jews take more offense than the outside world.
No, she was not brought up chareidi, and no one is faulting that at all. But she was brought up, at least, nominally, with Orthodox values that include some sense of modesty. We're not discussing shittos here of how much of the arm to cover, if pants are allowed, etc. We're talking about indisputable breaches of tznius. She is not a tinokes shenishba; she went to an Orthodox school. I have several relatives who teach there; I know tznius is not a new concept to her. But she's throwing it all away.
And can you imagine the millions of people seeing it?!
It's a chilul Hashem, no matter how you spin it.
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kitchen designer
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:28 pm
Maybe you can call that school orthodox - but they have no problem with the girls wearing pants on field trips and outside of school.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:34 pm
kitchen designer wrote: | Maybe you can call that school orthodox - but they have no problem with the girls wearing pants on field trips and outside of school. |
That's MO in many places. Outside of school? Few school care, or can do anything.
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sequoia
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 2:36 pm
You're not going to believe this, but there are women on this website who wear pants
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chanchy123
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:20 pm
kitchen designer wrote: | Maybe you can call that school orthodox - but they have no problem with the girls wearing pants on field trips and outside of school. |
Because modest pants are the same exact thing as a skimpy bikini, right?
There are various shitot regarding women wearing pants, it is not so simple. I know plenty of Orthodox women who wear modest pants and cover whatever needs to be covered. Heck, I wear modest pants when needed, on hikes, at the gym etc.
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amother
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:28 pm
Oh my!!
I was the one who started this thread. Didn't mean to cause such a stir - up. But it is cool to see how much people have to say about labeling someone and Dan Lkaf Zchus.
Did anyone else notice that she barely has any interviews and she is always barely shown in the shots?!
So who does everyone think will win?!? Come on... I think Liz is going to win (or maybe Kayla) . I don't think Ann will because it would just be too obvious since she's been winning all along.
:-)
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amother
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:29 pm
Oh my!!
I was the one who started this thread. Didn't mean to cause such a stir - up. But it is cool to see how much people have to say about labeling someone and Dan Lkaf Zchus.
Did anyone else notice that she barely has any interviews and she is always barely shown in the shots?!
So who does everyone think will win?!? Come on... I think Liz is going to win (or maybe Kayla) . I don't think Ann will because it would just be too obvious since she's been winning all along.
:-)
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amother
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:29 pm
Oh my!!
I was the one who started this thread. Didn't mean to cause such a stir - up. But it is cool to see how much people have to say about labeling someone and Dan Lkaf Zchus.
Did anyone else notice that she barely has any interviews and she is always barely shown in the shots?!
So who does everyone think will win?!? Come on... I think Liz is going to win (or maybe Kayla) . I don't think Ann will because it would just be too obvious since she's been winning all along.
:-)
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chaylizi
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 4:53 pm
louche wrote: | Heck, many of us know nothing about Judaism as she is practiced in Detroit. |
Which is different from Judaism as practiced in other places, how? Or you wouldn't know, because you don't live there?
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kitchen designer
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 6:03 pm
All I was saying was that based on the school she went to, Her behavior and dress choice really isn't such a surprise. (though there are some frummer elements in that school)
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amother
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 7:22 pm
sequoia wrote: | You're not going to believe this, but there are women on this website who wear pants |
Although I chooose not to wear them, pants do cover a lot more than many skirts do.
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amother
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 8:28 pm
amother wrote: | I feel bad for her that she is being picked on. She seems like a great girl. As far as judaism, doing what she knows to her level and cares too. At least she is doing this to start up a career and not just to win some $$$ like various degrees of types of orthodox jews have done on other shows. I can list off many really very orthodox jews who make headlines in the news way worse than girl in skimpy trying to start untzius career. |
yeah, why is it so hard for everyone to just be happy for this girl? She's only 18 years old, and I think it's really inappropriate for everyone to be ganging up on her like this. So judgmental about the way others practice...are you such a perfect Jew that you are in the position to judge her?
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louche
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Thu, Oct 21 2010, 10:00 pm
chaylizi wrote: | louche wrote: | Heck, many of us know nothing about Judaism as she is practiced in Detroit. |
Which is different from Judaism as practiced in other places, how? Or you wouldn't know, because you don't live there? |
The latter, which is why I would not presume to comment about customs in Detroit. Or Oak Park, for that matter.
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