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Barbara









  


Post  Mon, Oct 04 2010, 6:27 pm
DefyGravity wrote:
I was never nervous about eating food containing high fructose corn syrup until "They" started running pro-HFCS commercials on TV. Now I'm kind of wary about consuming too much of it.


I've missed that. And I actually *like* that reasoning.

People are always looking for culprits, instead of blaming themselves. My dad has the china that my grandparents received as an engagement gift in the 1920s. The dinner plates are the size of the salad plates in my china service. In the 1950s, a *serving* of fries was 2.4 ounces; now, its over 7 ounces. We're eating more, and exercising less. In a word, that is what is making America fatter.

This site has some interesting images of portion sizes then and now:

http://www.divinecaroline.com/.....ize-vs-now

I'm far more likely to attribute weight issues to that than to HFCS.
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Raisin









  


Post  Mon, Oct 04 2010, 6:38 pm
weight gain is not always only for one reason. People nowadays are fatter because a) they eat more b) drive more rather then walk c) eat junky food (such as corn syrup and msg) d) eat less vegetables e) eat lots of unhealthy fast food. Even if only 2 or 3 of these factors are in play a person could be overweight.

I almost never eat fast food, but I am still overweight. maybe if I would eat lots of fast food I would be even more overweight. someone else might eat a healthy diet but never exercises so is still overweight.

I agree - everything in moderation.
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PinkFridge









  


Post  Mon, Oct 04 2010, 9:30 pm
[quote="Barbara"]We can ALL cut and paste. WOW!

By James Kreiger:

And see also http://www.alanaragonblog.com/.....alarmism/, explaining the flaws in Lustig's arguments, and summarizing a debate with Lustig)

[quote]


ote]

Some of can't. I plan to enter the 21st century this winter, if I can, be"H.
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HindaRochel









  


Post  Mon, Oct 04 2010, 11:45 pm
I wrote:
Overall health risks: minimal.

too which Sarachana replied.
sarachana wrote:


let's see here, Diet soda does not affect everyone the same, some not at all, DOES THAT MAKE IT OK??!!?


See my statement? That takes into account that SOME people may react. HOWEVER, when studies have actually been done, blind studies, with people who have claimed to be sensitive, the studies have shown people ARE NOT REACTING. The only time there seems to be SOME reaction is when the MSG is given sans food. In that case there is MINOR reaction among a SMALL number of those who claim to have been sensitive.

My suggestion was not to start eating MSG as if it were a carrot, but if one reacts to products with MSG in them to research it more to find out if one is allergic to something else that normally is found with the MSG or that the MSG is derived from.

Exactly what in this statement is nonsensical?

I don't like diet soda. I don't trust the chemical in them and I don't like the taste. But a poison? What are the tests behind it? It is a personal thing. Just like not telling anyone about a pregnancy before 3 months.

Show me blind studies which prove there is an actual negative reaction and I'll join an anti whatever campaign.

People can react to ANYTHING even water. That doesn't make the substance poison. As Barbara said MODERATION in all things.
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leomom









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 12:41 am
ra_mom wrote:

As for Rich's whip, although we are not major dessert people, I cannot seem to stop using it when necessary, since I need to make dd dairy free and soy free ice cream, and BH sometimes I am able to find certain brands of whip that don't contain soy. The only other ice cream option for her is Rice Dream ice cream and she despises it (I do too!)


You can buy pareve ice cream made from coconut milk or almond milk! They're amazing but expensive.

You could also make your own pareve ice cream from these alternative types of milk.
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ra_mom









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 12:53 am
yy wrote:
ra_mom wrote:

As for Rich's whip, although we are not major dessert people, I cannot seem to stop using it when necessary, since I need to make dd dairy free and soy free ice cream, and BH sometimes I am able to find certain brands of whip that don't contain soy. The only other ice cream option for her is Rice Dream ice cream and she despises it (I do too!)


You can buy pareve ice cream made from coconut milk or almond milk! They're amazing but expensive.

You could also make your own pareve ice cream from these alternative types of milk.
Thanks yy! I have heard about but have not seen parve coconut milk ice cream with a hechsher. Do you know where I can purchase these?
About making my own, I have a recipe for an avocado coconut ice cream that I have been afraid to try. The others I have seen require an ice cream maker or continuous freezing and regrinding by hand.
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Inspired









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 5:16 am
Barbara wrote:
We can ALL cut and paste. WOW!

By James Kreiger:

And see also http://www.alanaragonblog.com/.....alarmism/, explaining the flaws in Lustig's arguments, and summarizing a debate with Lustig)

Quote:


Is High Fructose Corn Syrup Worse Than Regular Sugar?

A recent study out of Princeton University has the high-fructose corn syrup alarmists out in full force. This study compared the effects of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) to regular table sugar (sucrose), looking at their effects on body weight, body fat, and triglycerides (fats that float around in your blood). The study found that the rats fed HFCS gained more weight and abdominal fat than the rats fed sucrose. This study has strengthened the belief of some people that HFCS is contributing to obesity in our society, and that it is worse than regular sugar. But is it really?

To answer this question, we need to take a close look at this study. The researchers performed 2 experiments. In the first experiment, male rats were divided into 4 groups. Group 1 (the control group) was fed a regular diet. Group 2 was fed the same diet, with the addition of 24-hour access to water sweetened with HFCS. Group 3 had the regular diet with 12-hour access to the HFCS-sweetened water. Group 4 had the regular diet, with 12-hour access to sucrose-sweetened water. The rats were tracked for 8 weeks; weight was measured, along with food, sucrose, and HFCS intake.

You can see the results for experiment 1 in the following chart:

The rats who got HFCS for 12 hours gained significantly more weight than the other 3 groups. At first glance, this would make you believe that HFCS makes you gain more weight than sucrose, even if you are eating the same number of calories. However, there is a problem with these results. Take a look again at the chart above. If the rats fed HFCS for 12 hours gained more weight, why didn’t the rats fed HFCS for 24 hours also gain more weight? They got HFCS for a full 12 hours more, yet didn’t gain more weight. This is a glaring inconsistency in the results…an inconsistency that the researchers never tried to explain.

Rather than some unique effect of HFCS, a more likely explanation is one of chance. Put on your math hat, because we need to talk about some statistics. Researchers use statistics to get an idea of the probability that their results are due to chance. When the scientists run their stats, they get what is known as a P value. The P value tells you the probability that the results are not due to chance. Usually, if the P value is less than 0.05, a scientist will call the results “significant.” In other words, if you did the experiment 100 times, you would only see these results less than 5 times if there wasn’t a true effect.

The above only holds true if you’re doing a single comparison. If you start comparing a bunch of groups all to each other, the probability of a fluke result dramatically increases. The Princeton study is a perfect example. There are 4 groups all being compared to each other. That makes for 6 total comparisons (group 1 to group 2, 1 to 3, 1 to 4, 2 to 3, 2 to 4, and 3 to 4). Each one of these comparisons is being tested against that 5% level. To calculate the probability of a fluke result in this case, we calculate 1 – (0.95×0.95×0.95×0.95×0.95×0.95) = 26%. In other words, there is a 1 in 4 chance that the greater weight gain in the HFCS-fed rats is a fluke. I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t put too much faith in results that have a 1 in 4 chance of being wrong. There are ways that scientists can adjust for this, but the Princeton researchers didn’t appear to make those adjustments. Thus, it is not surprising that there was a significant result observed in 1 out of the 4 groups…you would expect this to happen based on random chance alone.

In Experiment 2, the researchers divided male rats into 3 groups: 12-hour HFCS, 24-hour HFCS, and control. They tracked the rats for 6 months. Both HFCS-fed groups gained more weight and fat than the control, and also had higher triglycerides. However, the researchers didn’t compare HFCS to sucrose in this group, so this experiment doesn’t’ say anything about whether HFCS is any worse than sucrose. The researchers also didn’t say anything about food intake and whether the HFCS-fed rats ate more than the control rats.

Experiment 2 also featured female rats on one of the 4 diets used in Experiment 1. These rats were tracked for 7 months. The following chart shows the results of the experiment:

The female rats fed HFCS for 24 hours a day gained significantly more weight than the other groups. Now compare these results to the chart for Experiment 1 earlier. Do you see the disparity? In Experiment 1, the rats fed HFCS for 12 hours per day gained the most weight. However, in Experiment 2, the rats fed HFCS for 24 hours per day gained the most weight, and the female rats fed HFCS for 12 hours didn’t gain any more weight than the other groups. Why did the 12-hour group gain the most weight in one experiment, but the 24-hour group gain the most weight in a nearly identical experiment? This is a glaring contradiction in the results, and a problem which the researchers did not discuss. We also have the same statistical problem that we did with Experiment 1. Since there are 6 comparisons, there is a 1 in 4 chance that the results are wrong (and ironically, we have 1 out of the 4 groups showing a significant result). In fact, when we take both experiments combined, we have at least a 50% chance that the results of one of the experiments are wrong. Out of all the comparisons being made, we would expect to see a couple groups show a significant result based on random chance…and that’s exactly what happened in this study.

The bottom line is that there is no valid reason for HFCS to be any different than sucrose in the way that it affects your body. They are both nearly identical in their composition, containing roughly half fructose and half glucose. They are both nearly identical in the way they are metabolized by your body. There is no practical difference between the two as far as your body is concerned. Now, I’m not saying that you should go out and consume all the HFCS that you want. The point is that there is nothing uniquely “bad” about HFCS compared to regular sugar. HFCS is not uniquely responsible for weight gain as some people would have you believe.

If you see a product with HFCS and a similar product with natural table sugar, don’t assume the product with natural sugar is any better. Rather than worrying about whether something contains HFCS, you should strive to reduce your intake of all types of added sugar and refined carbohydrates in your diet. It is much more important to look at the big picture; keep your physical activity high, manage your overall food intake, make sure most of your food is from minimally refined sources, and keep your protein intake high. This is what will help you lose weight and keep it off, rather than singling out HFCS in your diet. Don’t let the fructose fear-mongerers fool you.


Now, personally, I prefer sugar to HFCS, simply because I prefer less processed products. But its not *poison*


You didn't watch the video, obviously, so you wouldn't know that your quote does not even address the subject of Lustig's video.
It is telling that your link calls table sugar "natural". The only natural sugar is when you eat a fruit, or a piece of sugar cane.

I suggest you all watch the video. Really, really good. Thanks CM!
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Inspired









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 5:34 am
ra_mom wrote:
yy wrote:
ra_mom wrote:

As for Rich's whip, although we are not major dessert people, I cannot seem to stop using it when necessary, since I need to make dd dairy free and soy free ice cream, and BH sometimes I am able to find certain brands of whip that don't contain soy. The only other ice cream option for her is Rice Dream ice cream and she despises it (I do too!)


You can buy pareve ice cream made from coconut milk or almond milk! They're amazing but expensive.

You could also make your own pareve ice cream from these alternative types of milk.
Thanks yy! I have heard about but have not seen parve coconut milk ice cream with a hechsher. Do you know where I can purchase these?
About making my own, I have a recipe for an avocado coconut ice cream that I have been afraid to try. The others I have seen require an ice cream maker or continuous freezing and regrinding by hand.

This looks really YUMMY:
http://www.nourishingmeals.com.....icles.html
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Inspired









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 8:33 am
Barbara wrote:
DefyGravity wrote:
I was never nervous about eating food containing high fructose corn syrup until "They" started running pro-HFCS commercials on TV. Now I'm kind of wary about consuming too much of it.


I've missed that. And I actually *like* that reasoning.

People are always looking for culprits, instead of blaming themselves. My dad has the china that my grandparents received as an engagement gift in the 1920s. The dinner plates are the size of the salad plates in my china service. In the 1950s, a *serving* of fries was 2.4 ounces; now, its over 7 ounces. We're eating more, and exercising less. In a word, that is what is making America fatter.

This site has some interesting images of portion sizes then and now:

http://www.divinecaroline.com/.....ize-vs-now

I'm far more likely to attribute weight issues to that than to HFCS.


that and the sugar/ hfcs consumption, particularly in sugary drinks. Watch the video, really, its good.
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Liba









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 8:41 am
We buy very very little processed food so I am not worried about my family, but is Israel full of HFCS the same way the US is?

The Rich's Whip type garbage we use 2-3 times a year is unsweetened so I can assume there is no HFCS in that.
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sarachana









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 8:56 am
HindaRochel wrote:
I wrote:
Overall health risks: minimal.

too which Sarachana replied.
sarachana wrote:


let's see here, Diet soda does not affect everyone the same, some not at all, DOES THAT MAKE IT OK??!!?


See my statement? That takes into account that SOME people may react. HOWEVER, when studies have actually been done, blind studies, with people who have claimed to be sensitive, the studies have shown people ARE NOT REACTING. The only time there seems to be SOME reaction is when the MSG is given sans food. In that case there is MINOR reaction among a SMALL number of those who claim to have been sensitive.

My suggestion was not to start eating MSG as if it were a carrot, but if one reacts to products with MSG in them to research it more to find out if one is allergic to something else that normally is found with the MSG or that the MSG is derived from.

Exactly what in this statement is nonsensical?

I don't like diet soda. I don't trust the chemical in them and I don't like the taste. But a poison? What are the tests behind it? It is a personal thing. Just like not telling anyone about a pregnancy before 3 months.

Show me blind studies which prove there is an actual negative reaction and I'll join an anti whatever campaign.

People can react to ANYTHING even water. That doesn't make the substance poison. As Barbara said MODERATION in all things.


MSG is a toxin weather you react or not, as are many other things....and yes even your WATER! There is is uric acid in your water! yuck! (reverse osmosis water purifiers can take care of that)

I watched the entire video by Dr Lustig plus the other videos posted in that thread as well. Here is what I came out with: The environment we live in is very toxic, there are poisons, chemicals and toxins everywhere we turn, but why mess up our internal environment by putting the stuff that's bad for us INTO OUT BODIES??? At least that we CAN control!
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Inspired









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 10:04 am
Liba wrote:
We buy very very little processed food so I am not worried about my family, but is Israel full of HFCS the same way the US is?

afaik, no, it isnt used here.
Ketchup for example just says "sukar" in the ingrediants. As does soda.
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Liba









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 10:09 am
Smile Another reason to make aliya.
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Hashem_Yaazor









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 10:18 am
BTW, I recently saw HCFS-free ketchup.
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aidelmaidel









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 10:19 am
WHOA - I did not mean to start this whole thing, I just wanted to give a substitute for MSG and why I don't use it...
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DefyGravity









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 10:21 am
Hashem_Yaazor wrote:
BTW, I recently saw HCFS-free ketchup.


Yup. Me too.
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ra_mom









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 11:27 am
Inspired wrote:
ra_mom wrote:
yy wrote:
ra_mom wrote:

As for Rich's whip, although we are not major dessert people, I cannot seem to stop using it when necessary, since I need to make dd dairy free and soy free ice cream, and BH sometimes I am able to find certain brands of whip that don't contain soy. The only other ice cream option for her is Rice Dream ice cream and she despises it (I do too!)


You can buy pareve ice cream made from coconut milk or almond milk! They're amazing but expensive.

You could also make your own pareve ice cream from these alternative types of milk.
Thanks yy! I have heard about but have not seen parve coconut milk ice cream with a hechsher. Do you know where I can purchase these?
About making my own, I have a recipe for an avocado coconut ice cream that I have been afraid to try. The others I have seen require an ice cream maker or continuous freezing and regrinding by hand.

This looks really YUMMY:
http://www.nourishingmeals.com.....icles.html
Thos DO look good. And easy. Thank you so much!
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ChossidMom









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 11:36 am
Liba wrote:
We buy very very little processed food so I am not worried about my family, but is Israel full of HFCS the same way the US is?

The Rich's Whip type garbage we use 2-3 times a year is unsweetened so I can assume there is no HFCS in that.


No HFCS in Rich's Whip but hey, that's pure chemicals. I never use the stuff.

B"H HFCS hasn't arrived in Israel yet.

You want to know what ticks me off big time????? Every (almost) container of tomato paste at my supermarkets (yesh, shefa and barkol) has FRUCTOSE in it. Can you believe that? Why, for heavens sake, can't we buy pure tomato paste without added sugar? This makes me so, so, so MAD Evil or Very Mad
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HindaRochel









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 12:07 pm
I often make my own tomato sauce (for spegghetti etc. For meatloaf etc I do buy) and people generally like it better than the other stuff. It is very easy. Just peel, seed tomatoes, cook down, adding a bit of vinegar, sugar, salt, bit of red wine and olive oil. I add other stuff to like olives, onions, peppers, etc. but you don't need to do so.

I get those tomatoes sauces in the plastic container and they seem to have only tomatoes, tomatoe paste, salt and calcium chloride, which I guess is a preservative.
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olallieberry









  


Post  Tue, Oct 05 2010, 6:43 pm
[quote="ra_mom"][quote="yy"]
ra_mom wrote:

Thanks yy! I have heard about but have not seen parve coconut milk ice cream with a hechsher. Do you know where I can purchase these?


The brands of coconut milk ice cream are So Delicious and Purely Decadent, and they are wonderful. You can find them at most large supermarkets in the natural foods section, most natural foods stores, and I've seen them in some kosher markets, too. There's a store locator on their website, and you can get some coupons there, too.

Turtle Mountain Store Locator

Also, Healthy Top Whipped Cream is parve, dairy-free, soy-free, and doesn't contain any unhealthy ingredients like hydrogenated oils. It's very delicious.
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