I can trace my lineage

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Tamiri

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 12:56 pm

I can't find Chareidi there. My lineage goes back at least a few generations of observant Jews. Some of the men learned/learn, some didn't/don't. Some more modern relations strayed to being non observant; some strayed and came back. So far, no one I know has married out.
I'm proud to know who my parents are and my ancestors were. I have nothing to hide and nothing to "boomerang" about. Ya know what I mean?
I once lived in a place where the Rabbi had ladies plunking covers on their heads. Once they did that, no matter what their "lineage" (and I use the term loosely here), they were good to go, and stopped associating with others (including eating in their homes) which caused a lot of animosity.
To what end?
I know where I come from. I think that makes me "good enough".
I don't stand in a place of BT or Geirim - they are on a higher madrega for sure.

Raisin

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 2:45 pm

I've got chassidim on one side of my family tree, yekkes on the other. some of them were probably pretty chareidi, I imagine. some I know were not.

I'm trying but failing to see what point you are making.

freidasima

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:21 pm

Well let's see, my father's side was chassidish back to R. Elimelekh of Lizensk where his great great great great grandfather was his shammus.
On my mother's side her mother's family was Vizhnitzer chassidim.
Her father's family was Russian from Kiev and not chassidish from what I know but maybe I'm wrong, maybe they were. He was a communist BTW and my grandmother was very frum. The house was "interesting" to say the least. They were madly in love, got married late and had an agreement. The house was kosher, if my grandfather wanted to eat his treifes it had to be out of the house and my grandmother shouldn't know about it.
He had to agree to keep TH. He did. He had to agree to keep shabbos in the house. He did. He had to agree to keep strictly kosher in the house and outside if my grandmother was with him. He did.
My grandmother had to agree that my mother, their only child, would be exposed both to religion and communism and when she got old enough she could make a choice.
So she learned to sing adon olam to the tune of the internationale...

yeah yeah, fast forward, she's frum. Still at 81.
My grandfather z"l had a sister older than him, also a fabrente communist, she came to NY from LA when I was a little girl and tried to teach me the internationale as well.
My grandmother who lived with us took one look at her and said "one in the family was enough" and that was the end of the internationale for me.

We also have a lot Yekke relatives on my father's side. His father's sister married to Germany and his mother's father's sister also did.

My husband considers himself a Litvak. His father's family is from Latvia and Lithuania. His mother's family is from Poland. They were all very frum. His grandfather was a rabbi and a schochet when he came to America. His father broke the family history of 17 generations of rabbis as he had to make a living so he didn't learn rabbonus. But the chain then went on just skipping that generation.

We also have distant relatives who are no longer frum and those who married out.

So that's my lineage..
So? Big deal. That and $2.50 will get me on the NY subway...

Tamiri

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:23 pm

No point. I just get upset when "upstarts" upset the cart. One of the posts I read got me going.

Tamiri

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:26 pm

My kids were in Poland last week and visited gravestones in Warsaw, of my FIL's grandfather and family. They told me that Poland is a beautiful country shock

and from the pictures, it seems they are correct.

Raisin

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:28 pm

Tamiri wrote:

No point. I just get upset when "upstarts" upset the cart. One of the posts I read got me going.

if by an upstart you mean a BT or Ger (or their descendant) I find this a strange thread for you to have started.

Raisin

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:29 pm

Tamiri wrote:

My kids were in Poland last week and visited gravestones in Warsaw, of my FIL's grandfather and family. They told me that Poland is a beautiful country shock

and from the pictures, it seems they are correct.

how did they do for food in the end?

freidasima

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:30 pm

Yep it is. And the big five star hotels (not what your kids stayed at believe me) give incredible breakfasts most of which are full of kosher stuff that we can eat...like fresh fruits and veggies, imported yoghurts with hechshers.

The weather can be lovely during the summer.
The parks are beautiful.
Dh and I even went boating when we were there.
Yeah no wonder my grandparents loved it there and actually went back there from Germany in the early 1930s, G-d help them...

Tamiri

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:31 pm

Raisin wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

No point. I just get upset when "upstarts" upset the cart. One of the posts I read got me going.

if by an upstart you mean a BT or Ger (or their descendant) I find this a strange thread for you to have started.

I don't know the poster's lineage. It was just something she had written previously, and now condescending towards "others".

Tamiri

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:33 pm

Raisin wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

My kids were in Poland last week and visited gravestones in Warsaw, of my FIL's grandfather and family. They told me that Poland is a beautiful country shock

and from the pictures, it seems they are correct.

how did they do for food in the end?

They ate tuna, crackers, cereal etc. taht they shlepped from here and they ate at a kosher restaurant in Warsaw a few times (Shloimies?) which they said was fine. They came back only a little hungry. Didn't buy anything in the stores - couldn't find anything to eat. Said fruit was not tasty (I think there was a breakfast in the hotel).

Tamiri

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:34 pm

freidasima wrote:

DID G-d help them? They stayed at a Novotel. I'm not sure how many stars but they brought back a roll of TP to show me - nice and thick, and the little shampoos smell decent. They tried the breakfast fruit but said it didn't taste good. Weather was cool but nice. They wore jackets.

Ruchel

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 3:47 pm

Three of my grandparents were raised Polish chassidim. Kotsk and various small ones on my dad's side, Bobov and associated (Sanz etc) on my mom's. Modern chassidim in pre-war Krakow could be quite interesting for Imamother study. Hair only covered by a small hat in shul, very high chol instruction, etc. Even the previous generation in sheitel and shaved head was quite educated and NOT married off at 18 (or 20, or 22). Didn't prevent some of the husbands from wearing shtreimel and belonging to the rebbe's court.
My dad is a Kotsker einikel. My mom is from Tosfos Yomtov. That's for short.

My maternal grandfather was one of 3, attended Yesoda Hatora, were chol was definitely taught, and by non frum kippaless Yidden! His mother went to a business school, one aunt to university, one cousin was a chief doctor at the Krakow hospital.

My paternal grandfather who was one of 3 grew up in the shtetl and only attended the cheder (until BM). Still he could write Polish. There too many women didn't cover (fully), from pics.

My paternal grandmother grew up one of 10, raised by a widowed father. She could write Yiddish, do tailoring and play two instruments, not sure about the rest of her instruction.

My fourth grandparent (maternal grandmother) was raised Sefardic and very frum (rabbanical family, from Luria Ha ari), one of two. People were also very educated and women who were the moms pre-war didn't cover their hair, neither did some grandmothers, and some rabbaniot. Got married similar ages as Krakow (25 as average for women).

I have pics to prove all this or you can phone up my grandparents. Smile

Note: 9 out of 10 European origin Jews (no, not "Ashkenazim" as some put it) descend from Rashi anyway.

Last edited by Ruchel on Sat, Oct 16 2010, 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 4:31 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

No point. I just get upset when "upstarts" upset the cart. One of the posts I read got me going.

if by an upstart you mean a BT or Ger (or their descendant) I find this a strange thread for you to have started.

I don't know the poster's lineage. It was just something she had written previously, and now condescending towards "others".

what thread are you talking about?

freidasima

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 5:20 pm

Novotel is awful. Sure the TP is great but the food stinks.

We stayed at the intercontinental last time and it was marvelous.
The fruits were delicious as were the vegetables and they had imported yoghurts and muesli closed packages with a hechsher.

I usually bring my own chickens and stuff so we have our own shabbos but use the local fruits and veggies and there is a store which sells Israeli products. There are also large supermarkets right near the novotel in the mall (zlote terrasse) next to the train station (Warszawa Centralna), basement floor, where you can get anything and everything you want from anywhere.

As for my grandparents, well G-d helped my grandmother die of typhus in the lodz ghetto and my grandfather to get shot in another ghetto a year later and my aunt (father's sister) to get gassed in Belzec...so...I don't even have graves to visit.

ChossidMom

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 6:18 pm

freidasima wrote:

Well let's see, my father's side was chassidish back to R. Elimelekh of Lizensk where his great great great great grandfather was his shammus.

Wow! That's really cool!

I don't really have yichus. My dad z"l always used to say that yichus is like a potato - the best part is under the ground!

My husband is the meyuchas in my family. He's a descendant of Reb Duvid'l MiLelov (you probably have to be Chassidish to appreciate that!)

I have no idea what this thread is about but I figured I'd stop in, lest FS think that I have abandoned the forum for the Charedi one... LOL

chocolate moose

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 7:09 pm

I might like this thread more if I came from anything more than ignorant farmers.

Mimisinger

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 7:32 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

I might like this thread more if I came from anything more than ignorant farmers.

You should be proud of your background. It's a lot harder than you think to farm. It's back breaking work, that is seven days a week, and more than 18 hour days, esp. back then.

Mimisinger

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 7:33 pm

ChossidMom wrote:

freidasima wrote:

Well let's see, my father's side was chassidish back to R. Elimelekh of Lizensk where his great great great great grandfather was his shammus.

I LOVE this!

bubby

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 7:46 pm

OMG...my DH family name is Luria...going back to, yup, the Ari'zal...OMG.

I'M RELATED (BY MARRIAGE) TO...RUCHEL!!!

That may be hard for you to swallow, Ruchel. Sorry! Wink

I'm not going to boast here about the yichus on my side. Too yichus-dik for some of you to handle, you'll be bowing & scraping in awe!

Last edited by bubby on Sat, Oct 16 2010, 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

bubby

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 7:50 pm

Tamiri, now that some of us are admitted horse-traders & others aristocracy, care to share what ruffled your feathers?

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