I can trace my lineage

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amother

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 7:53 pm

How does one go about tracing lineage in Europe going back a couple of generations? Any good websites?

shosh

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 8:14 pm

Well let me see ...

On my dad's side: Rabbis and scholars and descent from a Chief Rabbi or something from Kovno but no one knows what he was called! So I guess that says a lot about what we think of yichus really. One of my ancestors ran a mill. My grandfather studied in the yeshiva in Volkovisk till he was 34, came to England and married my grandma.

On my mum's side - more interesting - on her mum's side - Ashkenazim who had loadsa money and were traders and jewellers. (All the money was gone of course by the time my grandmother came on the scene. Oh well!!!!
On her dad's side we are direct descendants of Tzaddok Benjamin and Esther Van Secker of Amsterdam, who settled in London in the 17th century when the first Sephardim were allowed to come back into the country. Other ancestors went to Australia for a few generations because they were mining gold in Ballarat. Didn't find much unfortunately. And others were there running a cigar factory.
No money by the time it got to our generation though!

So I guess that makes me an Ashkesephardi of some sort. But of course I have the best yichus of the lot! I'm a direct descendant of Adam Harishon, and it's good enough for me!

Raisin

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 8:42 pm

apparantly my ancestors were involved in a huge fight that divided the Jewish community of frankfurt in the middle of the 18th century.

No idea what they did for a living but they were influential people.

bubby

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 10:04 pm

Shosh, did you say Adam Harrison? Never heard of him! LOL

Sat, Oct 16 2010, 11:56 pm

amother wrote:

How does one go about tracing lineage in Europe going back a couple of generations? Any good websites?

Try Jewishgen.org - signup is free but they do ask for donations

(edited bec I wrote com instead of org)

Last edited by JC on Sun, Oct 17 2010, 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total

Tamiri

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 12:39 am

bubby wrote:

Tamiri, now that some of us are admitted horse-traders & others aristocracy, care to share what ruffled your feathers?

No. And I don't have any Yichus that I know of on my father's side, except that Zero Mostell is a cousin. I don't want to brag about the other side and who was my parents' mesader kedushin. As you write, it's too much for some to handle Rolling Laughter

I also don't want to make ref. to what ruffled my feathers. It's not important anymore.

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 12:42 am

Tamiri wrote:

bubby wrote:

Tamiri, now that some of us are admitted horse-traders & others aristocracy, care to share what ruffled your feathers?

I also don't want to make ref. to what ruffled my feathers. It's not important anymore.

Then we are related!!!!!

Zero is my husband's great uncle

Tamiri

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 1:12 am

My grandmother was a Mostell.

amother

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 1:15 am

Tamiri wrote:

I'm proud to know who my parents are and my ancestors were. I have nothing to hide and nothing to "boomerang" about. Ya know what I mean?....

...I know where I come from. I think that makes me "good enough".
I don't stand in a place of BT or Geirim - they are on a higher madrega for sure...

...No point. I just get upset when "upstarts" upset the cart. One of the posts I read got me going.

So what you're basically saying is that because you're not a BT or giyeres, you can have opinions, but if a BT or giyeres has opinions you don't like, they are an "upstart" upsetting the cart? And not knowing where one comes from makes them not be "good enough" like you say you are?

Are BT's second-class citizens who don't have "voting" rights, yet simultaneously are on a "higher madrega" than you, as you said? This is a contradiction - which one is your true opinion? And if the post that "got you going" had been written by an FFB, would you not have been upset, because it wouldn't have come from an "upstart"? Rolling Eyes

To set the record, being a BT doesn't mean not knowing where you came from, as you implied. I am a BT and I do know quite a bit of my lineage. I do have yichus, including chassidic rebbes whose names you might recognize even though none of your lineage were "chareidi." My husband is friends with a BT with lineage straight back to the Baal Shem Tov through his daughter Udel, and from there from son to son, including many big rebbes. Is he "good enough" for you now?

You DO realize that these boards are full of BT's and geirim, right? Did you not think you might hurt anyone's feelings when you posted this? Or didn't you care? After all, you "know where you came from" and are "good enough," right?

And please, do explain what you meant by "I have nothing to hide and nothing to "boomerang" about. Ya know what I mean?" Because no, I don't know what you mean.

Tamiri

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 1:54 am

REad what I wrote in my OP about BT and Geirim. I am not at that level, ever. I have no idea about the "lineage" of the person who upset my cart. I wrote that as well.

amother

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 2:43 am

Yichus is a bunch of 0000000's you need the 1 (yourself) to make it big. I have yichus but so what? What difference does it make in my daily life????? So my family has been geshe luvabvitch on one side for over 7 generation, including some prominent people - so what? So my husband descends from one of the achronim? How does it affect your life everyday?

If having yichus gives you the inspiration to better yourself excellent,- like it is not fitting for someone a descent of _______ to do such and such. But I do not think most people are like that it more a bragging point.
I think this thread should be banned as it will get others jealous/.

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 2:46 am

amother wrote:

Your kidding right???

Everyone has Yichus... if not direct than someone who married someone knew someone who must have been important. LOL
If anyone gets jealous about someone else's yichus then they really need to get a grip!

Tamiri

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 4:14 am

My point (I've finally formulated it): it doesn't matter what you are now - we all come from "somewhere" and are all worthy of equal respect. No matter who we are: BT, Ger, FFB - all the same. R E S P E C T.

merelyme

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 4:28 am

Okay, so I looked up Zero Mostel on Google. Now I know who he was.

amother wrote:

Yichus is a bunch of 0000000's you need the 1 (yourself) to make it big. I have yichus but so what?

Who are you, amother? That's what my father says!

I think everyone here is descended from Avraham Avinu - spiritually if not physically.

kitov

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 4:38 am

I'm a bas melech.

So much for ancestry.

shosh

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 5:12 am

Well, as I posted up on another thread some time back, I used to sit with a girl called Joy Morris in German lessons. She was great fun to sit with, bc German was boring and she had purple hair and a loud laugh rather like a drain. This very obvious non-Jew was very proud of the fact that she was a direct descendant of Ezra the Scribe (through her Dad). So what?

So much for yichus ...

Ruchel

Sun, Oct 17 2010, 5:26 am

LOL Bubby, from which side does he come from R' Luria?? I'm so curious now!

Since we are doing husbands.

Mine comes from Yekkes installed in Italy for a few centuries, with a 1/8 of Italkim and a 1/8 of Sefardim plus what sounds as one Romaniote ancestor. lol

Yichus wise he comes from R' Luzzato (who was Ashkenazic as his name shows, and not Italki or "Sefardi", common misconception), R' Moshe Provençal, Rabbi Yosef Caro, Kalonymos family, Treves family, Astruc de Lunel, ultimately Rashi, but I don't have it clear in mind as for me.