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Intentionally Butchering Someone Else's Language Is

Fine everyone does it

31%

[ 7 ]

Ok sometimes- explain when

36%

[ 8 ]

Never really ok

31%

[ 7 ]

Total Votes : 22

MommyZ

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:22 am

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

HindaRochel

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:30 am

I think the whole point in making a word part of one's language is that one actually makes the word part of one's language. That means pronunciation, including emphasis on the correct syllable etc, is important.

The word then becomes whatever language it was incorporated into.

To me this is how a language grows. Well one way....

Ruchel

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:32 am

Just uneducated and trashy?

HindaRochel

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:50 am

When the word isn't added maybe Ruchel, but when the word is added it should take on the patterns of the adopted language.

Ruchel

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:55 am

HindaRochel wrote:

When the word isn't added maybe Ruchel, but when the word is added it should take on the patterns of the adopted language.

Not everyone agrees.

Some think we should say "one gelato", "two gelati". Some think "one gelato, two gelatos" or "one gelati, two gelati(s)" is fine.

I can just say I hate "Il Makiage". And I cannot believe someone would not make research without using a name for a shop or firm.

Sweet Valley Gal

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:58 am

MommyZ wrote:

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

Case in Point?

sequoia

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 7:58 am

So is Jeeves a valit or a valay?

Maya

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:01 am

sequoia wrote:

So is Jeeves a valit or a valay?

Chana Miriam S

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:02 am

I don't know that I really understand the question. I am highly literate and know only one non-native english speaker who speaks English as well as I do. Even well educated people in my language often make frequent mistakes which, while I might mentally correct in my own mind, I would never assume that it was because they were trashy and uneducated that they mispronounce, misspell, or use incorrect grammar. In fact, as long as I get their meaning, I rarely correct them, unless I am asked to. If I do not get their meaning, then I make a point of asking so that I do understand.

Further, as Canadians, we spell differently than Americans and even to some extent Briton's however we are spelling correctly for our own colloquial language. I also know that Canada, an enormous country has, well, not dialects of English, but definitively different speech patterns across the country. None of us are wrong. Just different.

I mean, it's one thing to jokingly say 'Mercy Buckets' to someone instead of 'Thank You' and another entirely to mispronounce it because, well, it is not your language. Speaking of which, lets not even get started about Parisian French versus Quebecois French.

Could someone give an example?

If anyone would ever like me to point out their spelling/grammar/misuse in their writing, let me know. I would be happy to proofread for you.

Chana Miriam S

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:06 am

Ruchel,

What do you mean by Makiage? That is not at all an English word. It is not even French spelled correctly. What is the context of the use of the word? Is it supposed to be Maquillage? Is it spelled that way as a company name? Perhaps because the demographic it is intended for could not pronounce Maquillage the way it is spelled in French? Seems to me it is more a transliteration than a disrespectful misuse.

Ruchel

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:14 am

It's a weird mix of Spanish and messed up French or something. I have no idea why it was chosen, it's a terrible brand name. Maybe it's a great brand, but I would be wary of a hospital called "Le Ospytel", so...

Chana Miriam S

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:20 am

sequoia- how I pronounce these things:

valay- valet
foyay - foyer

sarahd

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:23 am

Voila.

sequoia

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:38 am

And yet Bertie Wooster pronounced it valit, and he should know. It was his valay after all LOL

In reality, when in doubt one should consult a dictionary.

HindaRochel

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:51 am

Ruchel wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

When the word isn't added maybe Ruchel, but when the word is added it should take on the patterns of the adopted language.

Both would be acceptable in English. Maybe though I am thinking too much like an English speaker where different rule apply to different words, based both on word usage and country of origin.l

HindaRochel

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:58 am

chanamiriam wrote:

I personally was thinking more along the lines of "babysitter" here in Israel, which has a slightly different pronunciation than in the USA. Or "front rare axle" or something like that (I don't own a car) Similar words...but they definitely take on an Israeli flavor. "Valet" pronounced with an "a" sound is standard English. English has become quite versatile.

ora_43

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 9:04 am

Is this about the "walla" vs. "voila" debate? Because if so, you should know that "walla" is the correct pronunciation of the Arabic word "walla," meaning literally "by G-d." It's an expression of surprise, more or less.

It has nothing to do with "voila," as far as I know.

ora_43

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 9:08 am

As for the original question - if everyone is saying a word in one particular way, then saying it that way is no longer "butchering," it is now the correct way to say it in that region/country.

Kind of like how if someone went around speaking American English as it was spoken 100 years ago in America, they, and not those around them, would be the one who isn't speaking properly.

Language changes. It annoys me at times, but I try to just go with it.

Mrs. XYZ

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 9:18 am

MommyZ wrote:

When a word or phrase from another country is incorporated into your native tongue do you attempt to pronounce it correctly or do you use the common mispronunciation of your country?

So whenever you use a hebrew word, you say it with the guttural "R"?

Fox

Thu, Nov 25 2010, 9:33 am

Oh, this is such a good question. I never know what to do.

French words and phrases drive me particularly crazy. I really hate to pronounce things as if I didn't know the correct pronunciation (well, at least as correct as an native American-English speaker is capable of!), but everyone will look at your as if you're crazy if you truly use an approximation of the French pronunciation -- or not even know what you're talking about. The word sans is a perfect example!

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