The most disgusting wedding announcement ever:

sequoia

Mon, Dec 20 2010, 5:41 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I recently read a book ("Wedding in November" by Anita Shreve) that was basically a story where almost everyone was cheating, thinking about cheating or had cheated on their spouse. All under the guise of a wedding plot.

It was rather disturbing.

But I do think I would rather my husband leave than pine for his love that he can't be with, especially if he's going to cheat on me.

I read a lot of Anita Shreve as a teenager. Her books are disturbing but (I thought) psychologically realistic.

saw50st8

Mon, Dec 20 2010, 8:09 pm

sequoia wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

I read a lot of Anita Shreve as a teenager. Her books are disturbing but (I thought) psychologically realistic.

I recently picked up a bunch of them on clearance at B&N (like $3/each). None of her books have happy endings at all.

Did you read that book? It was basically celebrating the wedding of 2 high school sweethearts who for had split up in college, married other people and then re-met at a reunion 20 years later. She was already divorced and he left his family for her.

anon

Mon, Dec 20 2010, 8:23 pm

Wow. Disgusting is right. And very disturbing that it's featured in the NYTimes, and written up in a positive light.

My only consolation is that most of the people who commented on the article were also disgusted and recognized the intense selfishness of this couple. I'm glad thot most people saw through the positive angle that the writer attempted to portray.

Rodent

Mon, Dec 20 2010, 9:25 pm

Definitely an awful story to feature in that way but to be honest I have more issues with Jewish wedding invitations that list the kalla as a bitula. That is not the business of the invited guests and makes the bride seem like a piece of meat to me. Hear it during the ceremony whatever, but to ADVERTISE it makes me cringe.

saw50st8

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 8:35 am

Rodent wrote:

Rodent, its tradition.

IME, even if the kallah isn't betulah, they leave that line in so as not to embarras her.

WriterMom

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 11:44 am

faigie wrote:

those two deserve each other.

Undoubtedly. But the children most certainly deserve better, and unless there's a whole lot going on on the side, so did the ex-spouses.

This whole "in love" thing is so utterly absurd. One of the things I really like about Shmuely Boteach's books is that he emphasizes this "love is a verb" concept. I don't know anybody who has been "in love" with their husband every day for ten years straight. We all have days when we wonder if we'd have been happier with someone else, where we're annoyed (or furious), where we're bored (or turned off) ... and those of us who are responsible adults keep our values and priorities in mind (using secular terms here because this is universal moral behavior, not just in the Jewish world), work on our marriages, avoid temptation, and make choices that keep us in the right direction.

You can't help being attracted to somebody, on the most basic level. But you can choose whether or not to think about them, whether to seek out their company, whether to let yourself move away from your spouse and towards someone else ... joint holidays are a terrible idea in this sort of situation.

Ages ago someone here from a fairly chassidishe background wrote that in her circles couples socializing together was discouraged in part to avoid inappropriate attractions. And at the time I thought it was extreme. I still believe it's possible for married adults to have friendships, and work relationships, that do not lead to anything inappropriate, but there's no question it takes work. Avoiding the situation entirely does have something going for it.

WriterMom

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 11:53 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Rodent wrote:

Rodent, its tradition.

IME, even if the kallah isn't betulah, they leave that line in so as not to embarras her.

I've never seen that - is that in the Hebrew on some wedding invites? I confess I usually don't pay too much attention to anything beyond the date, time, where they're registered, etc.

saw50st8

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 11:56 am

WriterMom wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Rodent wrote:

Rodent, its tradition.

IME, even if the kallah isn't betulah, they leave that line in so as not to embarras her.

I've never seen that - is that in the Hebrew on some wedding invites? I confess I usually don't pay too much attention to anything beyond the date, time, where they're registered, etc.

Yes its on the hebrew side. FWIW, I've heard the same thing about when the ketubah is ready out loud - they add in betualah during the reading even if the girl is not (maybe not for a second marriage, but for a first marriage).

Not all invitations have it on, but it is on the traditional hebrew. I have no idea what was on my invitation Very Happy

Ruchel

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 12:01 pm

I've heard the betula thing is a machlokes. Some always say it unless it's obvious (second marriage, single mother), some say it if it's true/can be assumed realistically, some say it if the husband knows it's not true and agrees to it.
Others will have nothing, or isha.

Interestingly, my cousin's second marriage (America, reform) said "betula" - she was a mother of two and known for "boyfriends" including this one she lived with for years before Rolling Eyes

She was all happy to show her ketuba to my mother, who fought the urge to laugh. If she shared it with me later it must really have been hard for her to not comment, given I was at the time single and innocent Wink

Raisin

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 1:41 pm

Ruchel wrote:

nowadays you can be a mother and still be a besula. (donor sperm)

WriterMom

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 6:41 pm

LOL. Thanks for explaining, all! I haven't the foggiest idea what my ketubah says, but then it was a Conservative ceremony so maybe that's totally different? (Although the Orthodox rav at our shul looked at the ketuba, and it was signed by frum witnesses, and said I didn't need another ceremony, so who knows?)

I do appreciate the information!

Raizle

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 9:24 pm

marina wrote:

kitov wrote:

marina wrote:

eh, for crying out loud, it's good they didn't cheat. Also if my husband fell in love with another woman I wouldn't want him to stay out of some obligation to the kids, that's so offensive.

Just wondering, would you be hurt personally, and would you not feel bad for the kids for the destruction of their life living in an intact marriage?

Of course I'd be personally hurt, but it would be worse if they'd had an affair and were sneaking around for years. And kids are generally resilient.

no but it would be better had they cut off contact with each other and worked harder on their current marriages and worked to find the spark that ignited their marriage in the first place.

so don't just stay for the sake of the kids, stay and make it work!!!!!!!!!!!!

marina

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 9:29 pm

kitov wrote:

In our circles, invitations have a header for the chosson that reads "habocher hachosson hachashiv" and for the kallah "hakalla habsula hamhulala".

If boy is second marriage, it's "hachosson hachashiv", the kallah would be "hakalla hachashiva hamhialala".

help me to understand why a woman's virginity is something to extoll her about. Why don't you just write hakalla hachashiva in the first place?

MidwestMommy

Tue, Dec 21 2010, 9:59 pm

sequoia wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

I read a lot of Anita Shreve as a teenager. Her books are disturbing but (I thought) psychologically realistic.

I think it's actually called "A Wedding in December" for anyone who wants to read it. Smile

I read it, too, and found it rather disturbing.