The chosen | Imamother

Mitzvahmom

Tue, Sep 26 2006, 8:54 am

It's an ok movie.. not so bad

Chani

Tue, Sep 26 2006, 9:49 pm

yes to both, but I won't be allowing it for my children...

malkie

Tue, Sep 26 2006, 10:07 pm

I read THe Chosen, The Promise, and My Name is Asher Lev. Loved all of them!

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Sep 27 2006, 6:15 am

Motek wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

either way though, who cares if he was an opikores or conservative? if the book was good, which I thought it was very good, and you enjoyed the read, what does it matter if he was christian or muslim?

So you don't think that what you read has any impact on you?

I read Potok's books when I was in high school or post high school and I remember putting bookmarks in The Chosen and discussing different issues with my father.

yes, what you read can have an impact on you. but in what way are you asking this for? do you think that I went off the derech because of this? or do you think that I new hate chassidim b/c of the book? no, I read the book as a novel and that was that.

Crayon210

Thu, Nov 02 2006, 7:05 pm

Do you think that the impact could be deeper than "going off the derech" or "hating chassidim"?

youngmom

Thu, Nov 02 2006, 9:07 pm

both books left a very bad taste in my mouth when I was done.

Motek

Thu, Nov 02 2006, 9:31 pm

Well, next time READ them, don't eat them Tongue Out

seriously though, I understand what you mean

youngmom

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 10:24 am

the truth is, I should've stopped in middle, but I couldn't. I had to finish it. but, I wanted to finish it and get over with it asap because I couldn't stand what I was reading. I thought my name is asher lev was much worse than the chosen.

purplegirl

Thu, Nov 09 2006, 7:22 am

I read The Chosen and The Promise and was very disturbed. A person gets disenchanted with Judaism and finds meaning and fulfillment in Freudian psychology. I found it sad and deeply disturbing.

JRKmommy

Thu, Nov 09 2006, 9:45 am

But Danny DIDN'T get "disenchanted" with Judaism! He's shomer mitzvot throughout the book, and promises his father that he'll continue that way. He simply felt that he couldn't handle the being the future Rebbe to his father's Hassidim, and wanted to become a psychologist.

carrot

Thu, Nov 09 2006, 7:33 pm

JRKmommy, that was also the point that I got. And it resonated with me.

I didn't like the book because I didn't think it was well written.

Many of Chaim Potok's characters seem to exist just to express ideas, and same thing with the plot - the meaning and symbolism is laid bare and dry. There is very little good characterization. The daily life doesn't ring true for me.

For example, I think Danny had a friend who's father advised him? (Maybe I am thinking of a different one of his books?) And that character, the friend's father, is described as the epitome of perfection, he knows all there is to know about life and has the perfect balance between religious / secular. He obviously exists just as a mouthpiece for Chaim Potok himself. I think an author should show, not tell, and it should require some thought to understand the book. Just like life is not always cut and dry.

If anyone ever read East of Eden, there is also a character who is perfect. But he is also real and the book is full of poetry, depth, and conflict. The book is full of symbolism but it is still great because the symbolism is not the only driving force.

I hope that didn't all come out like mumble-jumble.

purplegirl

Sat, Nov 11 2006, 1:39 pm

JRKmommy wrote:

He cut off his peyos, married an irreligious girl, and kept dubitable kashrus. He didn't just not want to be the Rebbe - he didn't want to be part of that world anymore. Even if he was still shomer mitzvos, it seemed clear that he was disenchanted with Judaism.

JRKmommy

Mon, Nov 13 2006, 1:03 am

Danny does cut off his beard and long payos. However, I don't remember reading anything about marrying an irreligious girl or problems with kashrut. The book just talked about him breaking his engagement.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 25 2008, 1:15 pm

carrot wrote:

If anyone ever read East of Eden, there is also a character who is perfect. But he is also real and the book is full of poetry, depth, and conflict. The book is full of symbolism but it is still great because the symbolism is not the only driving force.

the Asian man? I don't think he was perfect, I felt he was trying to be as perfect as possible because he failed big time once (not able to save his wife, although it was not his fault).

Isramom8

Tue, Nov 25 2008, 2:51 pm

In The Chosen, Danny says he plans to dress without payos when he goes to university. In The Promise he makes some "adjustments' but is still basically shomer mitzvos. This should be understood in the context of that time and how difficult it was to remain a full chossid while working professionally.

Both books are very, very deep, and should be read with an eye towards trying to understand them on several levels. In my MO elementary school, we studied The Chosen in English class. I saw the movie at some point, and it's kind of cute and mostly follows the book, but leaves a lot out and only complements the book. The Chosen is on YouTube. One impressive thing in both books is the serious approach towards torah learning - no matter what the different hashkafos were.

The Promise is really about how holocaust affected people in different ways. Oh, it's very deep - you have to reflect and read between the lines. It's one of my most beloved books. It also deals with mental illness at a time when that was an extreme stigma.

Potok was what people call an apikores. My perspective is that these books should be studied as historical fiction about how different ideas about Zionism affected Yidden in the 1940s, and how the holocaust affected different types of people. There is also a strong psychological bent in the books.

Since I love literature, and psychology fascinates me, and I'm disturbed by the ways I think the holocaust still affects Klal Yisrael in general even today, these books speak to me. I feel that I understand them a whole lot better now than I did when I was younger and less experienced in life.

I allowed my teenage daughters to read these books, after explaining that Potok was considered an apikores, and also explaining that the novels reflect the sentiments of that time. And we discussed their impressions.

Isramom8

Tue, Nov 25 2008, 2:56 pm

As far as Asher Lev and Potok's other books, I was turned off by the course topics and vulgar language, and never got into them. The Chosen and the Promise are nothing like that.

Ruchel

Tue, Nov 25 2008, 3:01 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

I think the holocaust still affects Klal Yisrael in general even today,

I sooo agree. I see it so often. Sometimes I'm even surprised at how much even the non jews are still affected by the war. Recently we caught a serial killer who had started going "down the drain" after he witnessed horrors during the war - can you believe??

Maya

Tue, Nov 25 2008, 3:07 pm

I read all of his books, and loved every single one of them. Including his Jewish History one.

I like his writing style more than his stories, thouugh.

Isramom8

Tue, Nov 25 2008, 3:12 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

I think the holocaust still affects Klal Yisrael in general even today,

Of course. Abused people can become abusive. Even seeing abuse affects people in bad ways. And look at the way Jewish mothers are so emotionally concerned with their children eating. Attitudes have filtered down. We're still very insecure.

msym

Tue, Nov 25 2008, 6:58 pm

the book left me feeling very bothered