How do we view other religions?

bigsis144

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 10:40 am

How are we supposed to view religions, or any belief systems, other than Judaism?
Contempt/disgust ("How dare they blaspheme!!")? Pity/sadness ("They're so misguided... nebach.")?

Is there any place to find good in the fact that other people worship (or choose not to believe in a Creator) differently? If I don't feel revulsion every time I hear soulful gospel music, or if I'm fascinated by Buddhist philosophy, must I work on myself so that my neshama is pained by these things?

DrMom

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 10:49 am

Hmmm... well, we don't really desire for everyone to be Jewish (unlike, say, evangelical xtians). Noahidism is the ideal for non-Jews.

I suppose we can view positively any adherence to the Noahide Laws which is codified in these other religions.

And I suppose we should be glad that certain religions (xtianity, Islam) are monotheistic.

I think we can be interested and fascinated in other religions while still acknowledging the gaps between them and the Noahide ideal.

ora_43

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 11:05 am

It depends which other religion you're talking about. Some are very close to the Noahide ideal, others are much further from it, some are supportive of Jews and Israel and some are hostile - etc.

Of course there's room to find good in it.

Also, I agree with DrMom.

cassandra

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 11:41 am

I asked this once to my teacher in high school, and I liked the way she put it. Think of the truth, G-d, as the center of a bull's eye, and then all the other religions as concentric circles around that bull's eye. So as Jews we believe that the Torah is the will of G-d and is the manifestation of Truth, G-d, on Earth, and therefore we are as close to the center as possible- perhaps the outer ring of the center itself. Other religions, depending on their tenets, also believe in Truth, yet they can get details wrong which puts them further and further away from the center, depending on religion. And obviously the Torah and halacha have what to say about the various rings, like a monotheistic religion is better than a polytheistic or idolatrous one. (But still, it's like the midrash about how idolatry evolved- it too was essentially a misguided way to connect to G-d.)

My thesis actually dealt partially with this question (see, I'm a searcher) and if you want to know more the work of John Hick is very helpful. He obviously will not raise Judaism above other religions, but he shows how different religions can believe very different things yet retain the same core.

bigsis144

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 11:53 am

Cassandra, I like your mashal. I don't really have a problem intellectually with there being other religions, my question is more about how to feel about them.

is the ideal attitude the "kano'I", who is enraged by any affront to Hashem's honor? I know that we're in galus and can't act violently toward ov'dei avoda zara, but it's kind of like Amalek -- do we have to work on ourselves to remove any shred of sympathy for them?

or, is it better to feel (again, it's all the emotions I'm talking about) saddened, which might be the most galus-dik approach. We weep for the Shechina in galus; is the proliferation of other religions something we should mourn?

or, do we have any right at all to think, "Hey, that ritual/idea/etc. is cool. It's not Torah, so it's not for me, but, if they feel spiritual doing that, why not?" or even, "Hmmm... that touches something inside me. I better make sure it's not mamash avoda zara, but otherwise, maybe I can use this in my avodas Hashem."

cassandra

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 12:02 pm

I get your question, because I practice yoga which has its roots in religious practice (but is not a religious practice itself). And I enjoy not just the postions but also the philosophy behind it.

I think my answer to that does go back to my first post, because I believe that the major world religions today are not so far away from Judaism, and I believe that as Jews we have an obligation to be an or lagoyim, and the Moshiach will be the time when everyone will recognize the truth itself without their religious trappings. (According to some this will even be true of Judaism itself- like those who say we won't keep most of Torah anymore. Obviously others disagree.) So as long as they aren't trying to kill me because I'm Jewish, I'm okay with them.

We also have a tradition in Judaism of accepting truth from other sources- this is what the Rambam holds and is the basis of Moreh Nevukhim, but it was done prior to him too. I believe that we can look around and if there is an idea that is interesting to us we see if it can be reconciled with Torah, and it almost always can. Not only that, but I have found that real truths you can usually find in the Torah itself, even if it wasn't so obvious until you saw it elsewhere.

But I guess that's what makes me Modern Orthodox.

DrMom

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 12:05 pm

bigsis144 wrote:

Reminds me of the bat mitzvah my parents attended (not an Orthodox shul) in which "Adom Olam" was sung to the tune of "Amazing Grace." They said it was beautiful, but were not able to enjoy it (understandably).

bigsis144

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 12:09 pm

DrMom wrote:

Oy, as soon as you described it, I could hear it in my head, and it totally works. Adon Olam (and D'ror Yikra, thanks to their meter/rhyme schemes) is easy to fit into so many tunes. My mother sang it to us at the end of K'riyas Sh'ma to the tune of "Scarborough Fair". " Smile

And Amazing Grace is soo beautiful. Brings me to tears every time. Is wanting to listen to it a yetzer hara for avoda zara, though? (And now all the people who talk about "the composer has a direct effect on your neshama!!!!!!" can chime in...)

PinkFridge

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 2:05 pm

I've heard it taught that Christianity and Islam (in theory, leaving the Crusades, Inquisition, dhimmitude and worse, etc. out of the picture) are good because they brought monotheism to the world. For non Jews, this is great, a big step up over idol worship.

We have no obligation to proselytize, and no energy to preach the 7 mitzvos. Wouldn't win us friends either so there's no mitzvah in that. I guess this sounds patronizing but when we see a people, country, etc. living basically moral lives, with a foundation in a single Creator (there's a machlokes about Christianity but I believe many say that for them it's not avodah zara) with a government based on good principles we can give a mental pat on the head and say, good people. Good efforts and I'm sure you'll getting points above for this.

Now as far as your neighbor the Hindu, I'd feel sorry for them but honestly not spend too much energy thinking about them.

Gospel music has soul. Buddhism doesn't. I heard Sara Yoheved Rigler speak and she was talking about some of the fundamental points, like the value of detachment, that seem so sad to me. I've read a little about and by Eckhart Tolle and I found much of it disagreeable. One day I'm going to read Letters to a Buddhist Jew by Rabbi Tatz and David Gottleib. (Not THE R' DG). Buddhism may or may not still be the flavor of the month but you have to really, really think into this. Most people who are propogating this and gushing over it these days (I'm thinking celebs and the person on the street) don't think too much.

sequoia

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 4:28 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I like Rav Polonsky's approach, but he's very left-wing, so probably I am the only one.

Can you give us a thumbnail sketch?

He says that Christianity and Islam brought the holy light of monotheism to the people of the world, and are acceptable for gentiles.

cassandra

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 4:30 pm

sequoia wrote:

PinkFridge wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I like Rav Polonsky's approach, but he's very left-wing, so probably I am the only one.

Can you give us a thumbnail sketch?

He says that Christianity and Islam brought the holy light of monotheism to the people of the world, and are acceptable for gentiles.

I don't think that's so extreme and I don't think that it's so far off from what I said. I do believe that it is a teleological rather than being an end in itself, though.

saw50st8

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 4:52 pm

sequoia wrote:

PinkFridge wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I like Rav Polonsky's approach, but he's very left-wing, so probably I am the only one.

Can you give us a thumbnail sketch?

He says that Christianity and Islam brought the holy light of monotheism to the people of the world, and are acceptable for gentiles.

That's what I grew up learning.

Raisin

Wed, Mar 02 2011, 4:57 pm

sequoia wrote:

PinkFridge wrote:

sequoia wrote:

I like Rav Polonsky's approach, but he's very left-wing, so probably I am the only one.

Can you give us a thumbnail sketch?

He says that Christianity and Islam brought the holy light of monotheism to the people of the world, and are acceptable for gentiles.

thats what I was taught in school as well. maybe not that they are acceptable, but certainly better then the alternative.

you may go into a mosque, becasue Islam is monotheistic, but not a church, because of the whole holy trinity thing.

And I think the whole islam/jihad/unpleasant treatment of women is more cutural then religious.