running a washing machine on Shabbot

RachelEve14

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:00 pm

So I first thought about this a couple of weeks ago, and then we went to a friend on Shabbot who does it (but didn't ask a p'sak, assumed it was fine). I'm not going to ask my Rav because our machine doesn't have this feature, but I"m curious if anyone else has asked a Rav about it. My gut says you can't because:

1. It heats the water (could solve by washing on cold I suppose).
2. It makes noise, disturbing Oneg Shabbot (although if she can't hear it does it still make noise???)
3. It seems to me like preparation for after Shabbot, since you are only running the machine on Shabbot so you can hang out the washing right after.

Anyway, I told my friend I would ask on imamother, so here I am asking. Has anyone asked and been told yes or no? Anyone's dh want to take a wager about if it's allowed or not?

Tamiri

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:07 pm

Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing. But to plan and do a load ON Shabbat? What in the world for? What do you do when the machine is done - you can't hang the clothes and you can't turn on the dryer.
What purpose does doing laundry on Shabbat serve? Isn't there an issur of laundering, one of the 39 avot melacha?

shalhevet

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:09 pm

I once asked dh about this - it isn't even allowed if you started the wash before Shabbat - you have to turn it off in mid-cycle before Shabbat begins. Ditto a dryer.

The main reason is 2, also because someone else may hear the machine.

If you got it to turn on on a timer, it is an additional issur, since it is only allowed to use a timer for heating/cooling the room, medical needs, lights - not for everything you'd like - it is like saying to a non-Jew.

shalhevet

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:10 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing.

See my post after yours, that that is also assur - obviously, if you forgot to turn it off, you forgot. But you should turn it off before Shabbat (applies more to a drier if you have any sense, and don't want a smelly mouldy load on Motzai Shabbos).

RachelEve14

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:12 pm

Tamari, the person set the machine to go on at the END of Shabbot, so the load is finished right when Shabbot goes out, and she can hang it right then. There is a timer function on new machines so you can load it all up and set it to start in X number of hours.

Shalhevet, I thought like you also, so I was surprised this person was doing it and didn't even think to ask. Then I thought maybe I was crazy. She did say the machine is not on the main level of the house, so she can't hear it, but I wouldnt' think that would make a difference...

Tamiri

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:18 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing.

I wrote bedieved, as in if you forgot or I don't know what.... Who would do a load for it to be finished ON Shabbat when you can't take it out and hang/dryer it?

Ema of 5

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:20 pm

my husband told me I cant organize dishes in the dishwasher on shabbos because it is hachana for after, so how can settinga timer specifically so that the laundry should be clean for right after shabbos be any different?

RachelEve14

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:22 pm

Tamiri wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Bediavad, if you have stuff in a machine that's running when Shabbat arrives, that's one thing.

I wrote bedieved, as in if you forgot or I don't know what.... Who would do a load for it to be finished ON Shabbat when you can't take it out and hang/dryer it?

Because if Shabbot is out at 8:30, and you time the load to finish at 8:15, you can hang out the load right after Shabbot, rather than first starting the load after Shabbot and having to wait 2 hours to hang it. Plus since the dry laundry just sits in the machine all of Shabbot, you don't have the issue of it being smelly from sitting clean and wet in the machine too long.

RachelEve14

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:28 pm

I never asked a Rabbi (since I don't have a machine like this). I just happened to go to a friend for Shabbot and she mentioned she does this (she didn't ask either, just assumed it was fine). It's not a friend who does things "stam," so I thought maybe I was thinking too machmir. Anyway I said I would post on imamother after Shabbot and see what the other posters think and if anyone has actually asked (or could ask a dh Rav)

Britmummy

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:32 pm

Strangely enough, I had a conversation about exactly this with my rabbi on Friday! I have to admit it's not something I'd really considered before.

We were discussing timers and he was the one who brought up washing machines and said it's ok to set a machine to come on during Shabbos as long as no-one actually touches the machine until Shabbos is out.

FYI, this is a Sephardi rabbi.

Tamiri

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:36 pm

A Sfardi Rabbi also told my Sfardi friend he could brew coffee on a timer on Shabbat! This is what the washing machine reminded me of - strange but maybe possible!

Marion

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 12:47 pm

Didn't we have this conversation a few weeks ago? In my case it doesn't matter, as the longest delay (including the washing time) is 19 hours...so it would still sit a few hours in a closed machine, and therefore I probably wouldn't be in a big rush to try it anyway. (Interesting question...if the machine turns itself off, is opening it any different than opening an oven that has turned off?)

RachelEve14

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 1:00 pm

Marion wrote:

Yes, but it wasn't you I was referring to in the OP, it was someone else we went to for Shabbot. It has come up twice in a couple of weeks, so I was curious and decided to ask about it.

RachelEve14

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 1:03 pm

Marion wrote:

(Interesting question...if the machine turns itself off, is opening it any different than opening an oven that has turned off?)

I would think yes, it is different, because if you are opening the oven to get food out, it is specifically for the benefit of having the food on Shabbot where as if you are opening the machine it is so you don't spoil the clothes or have to wash them again, which is not for oneg Shabbot, it's to save time and / or money.

zaq

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 4:15 pm

According to the sefer the 39 melochos by R' Dovid Ribiat running a washer on a timer on Shabbat is 100% assur. This is listed specifically under "hamav'ir" but could also be listed eslewhere.

Inspired

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 4:29 pm

Would setting it just to rinse be the same thing? The only time I considered doing this was when I had a load in that I forgot about and I did not have to hang it before shabbos. So I thought maybe I could just set the machine to rinse in 19 hours and then it would be less smelly after shabbos. I didn't think it would be totally assur, just not in the spirit of shabbos. I guess I was wrong?

chocolate moose

Sun, Jun 12 2011, 5:56 pm

A coffee machine is like a crockpot. The din is that a self contained appliance is allowed to operate on its own, because you won't be tempted to monkey with it.

RachelEve14

Mon, Jun 13 2011, 12:58 am

zaq wrote:

According to the sefer the 39 melochos by R' Dovid Ribiat running a washer on a timer on Shabbat is 100% assur. This is listed specifically under "hamav'ir" but could also be listed eslewhere.

A washing machine or a dishwasher? We actually looked in that book, but he didn't have washing machines listed. The dishwasher section was vague and we couldn't use the logic to say if washing machines would or wouldn't be allowed.