Your "English" name

chocolate moose

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 12:10 pm

I don't know if we've talked having an English name before.

I was born with an English name that I used until I came to New York and became Sara.

For the bank and my official papers, I don't mind using it that much; I don't want to have it legally changed. It's a hassle in this post 9/11 world anyway.

But I also don't want always to be know as Susan!

I sometimes get things address to my English name in the office, and my coworkers think it's "cute" to call me that. Some of my coworkers have English names...some not. (All are Shomer Shabbos; none are BT though.)

How come they don't get it's "part of a life I left far behind"? How come they think it's cute and funny to call me what I'm "not"!

It's very painful to be reminded of this. Doesn't ahavas yisroel dictate treating people the way they want to be treated? Need to be treated?

Mitzvahmom

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 12:28 pm

arg I deal with that all the time!!

Legally Molly, and my own kids school uses it to poke at me. I can tell when they are calling to tell me something bad about one of my kids (typically my daughter), they say "hello Molly."

Happy news... Malka... such and such did this..

It's so not worth the hassle... I have my passport, mayb eon renewal I will change it... but even then...ss# such a pain!

shopaholic

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 12:28 pm

I used to have one until I became a citizen & changed my name legally. I hated it & was embarrassed as a kid in case it would ever come up (like on a trip to canada when I needed my passpport). I was nervous before I took drivers ed that the instructor would call me by the name on my permit. I was relieved when I found out that my friend has an English name too.

french mummy

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 1:32 pm

well let me tell you that my English name is Delphine yes you say it like the fish Dolphin.
When I was in sem (in France) some teacher called me delphine and some called by my hebrew name)that I can't reveal here so when the time of the end where they had a teacher's meeting they thought it was 2 differents people.
I now live in London and nobody here knows me as Delphine but R....and I get back to France I have to get back to Delphine and I tell I HATE IT

su7kids

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 1:50 pm

I hve an English name, and a Hebrew name, and I use my English name. My Hebrew name is named for my grandfather who was Shmuel. My Hebrew name is Shmuela. I pray every day that my children are healthy and never need a mi'she'bayruch!!!

I once wrote to the Lubavitcher Rebbe who was very strong on people using their Jewish names, and said that, at that time, I was the only really Jewish person named for the grandfather, and my father is still alive, and I got an answer "Le'hitnaheig kmo ad achshav" So I use my English name, Susan NOT SUZIE!!!!

My husband changed his name officially when we became citizens. I got used to calling him by his Hebrew name, and don't even know who that person is, anymore, with the English name, that his father insists on using, still. "I gave him that name and that's who he is" [The thing is, Dad gave him his Jewish name, too!]

Annie

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 1:53 pm

I, on the other hand, have an English name that I've always been called, and I really don't like my hebrew name at all. Even in school, my limudei kodesh teachers called me by my hebrew middle name b/c I so didn't like my first hebrew name.

My English name is also extremely uncommon, so I think that helps. For me it's not about the past, it's just who I am.

My kids all have different English names except for my dd whose name works in English & Hebrew the same. They know their English names are for the doctor's office (and eventually their drivers licenses).

JRKmommy

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 4:07 pm

Sara - I've got a "real" English name that only gets used at work and on official documents because it's too stuff, an English nickname that friends and family use that's too cutesy/stripper-ish, and a Hebrew name that no one can pronouce in English.

That's life.

I think your co-workers are just being playful when they teach you about being "Susan". It doesn't sound like they are critical of you for having an English name. Adopting full-time use of a Hebrew name doesn't necessarily mean that a person has "rejected" their past identity under their English name., so your co-workers may have no idea that this really bothers you.

Marion

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 4:42 pm

SaraG, it's not just you. I think it just depends what you associate with each name. I use my English name with English speakers and my Hebrew name with Hebrew speakers. In fact, I had to "change" my name to convince the Israeli government that that was my name and it should appear on my documents! But my parents have always used my English name, and I'm named for someone specific, so why shouldn't I use that name?

Chani

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 7:16 pm

I use my English name (and maiden last name!) at work...too much trouble to change my licenses, etc. plus I was in a firm when I got married, so I never changed my name. Now I think about doing it (changing my last name) from time to time, but never have gotten around to it. My husband's last name is uncommon, nobody ever spells it correctly, and I guess I find it hard to get enthused about changing to it. As far as my first name - well, I just don't even want to think about how the folks at my office would manage to mangle the pronunciation of "Chani"...So in the community and in my home I'm Chani DH Last name, but not in the outside world. My children have only Hebrew names (and they find it very amusing that I have an English first name - everyone knows my first name is "mommy") :-D

Ruchel

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 8:51 pm

My Hebrew name is only used in religious contexts. Even in my community I suppose most people don't know my Hebrew name, unless they have seen my papers (my Hebrew name is my second middle name on my identity card, passport, birth act...) or received engagement/wedding invitations.
I just go by the French one, well that is the first name, not the full thing (although it appears on some things like credit card).

At university, I've tried to change my maiden name to my married name, but impossible, so I go by both, with a - (Maidenname-Husbandname or contrary).

In France most people I know go by their French name, which is generally the French form of the Hebrew name (Shimon -> Simon, Miriam -> Marie, Rahel -> Rachel), or something with the same meaning (Chaya -> Viviane), the translation (Aryeh -> Lion, Hirsch -> Cerf [VERY outdated]), the same initial (Fula -> Fanny), common associations (Moshe -> Maurice, Ber -> Bernard), close sounds (Zlata -> Charlotte) or no association at all (Chaya Mushka -> Juliette)...
Of course some names are the same: David, Esther, Sarah, Adele, Amalia, Ruth...

Many people have their Jewish name as second or third name on official papers (Marie Miriam, Marie Stéphanie Miriam....). Many have just French name(s). Personally I think it is very good to make the Jewish name(s) official too.

I used to think I would give no French name to my future children, but after hearing many times that it was "not our tradition", I have decided I would, since honestly they are right, and "European" tradition needs a few followers too LOL

cindy324

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 9:26 pm

well my "english" name is not english at all. It's a certain european name from the country I'm from originally. I absolutely hate it! I cringe every time I have to use it on legal stuff. My jewish name has absolutely nothing to do with my legal name and don't like it much either.

Cindy is my "american name" that I was unofficially given by my cousins when I was 12 years old LOL

I use it since then for unofficial stuff, and a lot of people know me as Cindy.

Quote:

maybe I should thnak her, you see the english name of the person I was named after was..........FANNY!
I rest my case

Faigie, you BETTER thank her, many times over! Believe it or not I know someone who named her daughter faigie after her relative, whose english name happened to have been Fanny, too! So she decided, what better way to honor her relative even further, and give her daughter the same english name shock

This is a little girl , barely 5 years old with the name Fanny on her birth certificate, on her SS card, etc. Poor kid, she'll walk into her first job interview at the ripe old age of 21, with the name of a little old bubby.

leomom

Thu, Oct 12 2006, 9:31 pm

SaraG, this is an interesting discussion. Personally, I only use my Hebrew name whenever I can get away with it. (I was given an English and Hebrew name at birth, and started using only my Hebrew name when I became BT.) But my parents almost always call me by my English name, my sisters call me by my English name or a cutesy, "pareve" nickname from our childhood, and most old friends call me some mixture because they're trying to use the Hebrew name but it's not natural for them. I don't really mind and I always say they can call me whatever they want, just don't call me late for dinner. LOL

My kids know my and my husband's English names, and over time the humorousness of it all has lost its novelty for them and they just take it in stride when they hear it. My husband, however, still cringes when he is called by his English name and doesn't even like his parents calling him by it, because like you, he associates it with his past, and he has completely changed since doing teshuva, etc.

As far as your coworkers, I would say definitely tell them you would like to be called only Sara, and that your English name is for legal purposes only. I would think they'd respect that if they are decent folks!

And to help deal with the possible negative associations you have with your English name, because of things in your past that you may not be proud of (speaking from personal experience here) -- try rewinding the tape in your head a little farther back, to when you were a young, innocent child, and your English name can represent that time of life instead of a perhaps more turbulent young-adult stage... if that works for you...