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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
Why do parents NOT tip their kids Counselors??
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 1:44 pm
Before you all jump on me and tell me to be Don Lkaf Zechus, I purposely did NOT put this in the Finances section because I am talking about kids who are going to a rather pricey Day camp which offers no discounts and scholarships, so if money was a problem, this would/should not be the place for them as there a way cheaper camps around in our vicinity.

With that being said , Mothers why do some of you not tip these hard working teens who are doing so much for your little kids? At the pre school level, they are helping dress and undress you little kinderlach for swimming. they are helping them in the bathroom when needed. They are changing them after accidents. They play with them, help them eat lunch and snack, break up petty arguments, do arts and crafts, bake, sing, dance and give them a great time.

Forgetting that the camp pays them next to nothing (which is another story for another day), why would you not want to show some Hakaros Hatov to these girls who work so hard to give your kids an amazing summer? I know its not your problem that they get like 50 cents an hour. I get it. Thats the camps fault. But if the camp is sending out a tip list politely requesting that you give each one of them like 10 or fifteen dollars, is that too much to ask?

If it is, why not even give less. Just acknowledge them.
And if you cant even do that, at least write them a Thank You note.
But to totally Ignore them??????

Come on Mommys.
Im sure you were all teens too who worked very hard.

Im at both ends of the spectrum.
I have kids in camp and kids that are working. So I get it.
Please mothers. Its not to late to show these girls that you care. Please acknowledge them appropriately.
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 1:50 pm
I always tip (even when I'm not really that happy with the counselors) so I can't answer from personal experience, but I would imagine that some people can feel that if they're already paying so much for camp, then why do they need to pay more, and may even resent being sent those "suggested tipping" lists. They probably don't think about the 'hakaras hatov' end of things.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 1:58 pm
ITA that the counselors should be tipped, because even at the priciest camps they're getting way less than minimum wage. Shamefully less. The camps can get away with it because the law assumes they're getting tipped, just like people in other service industries, e.g. waiters and table bussers. But many folks have the attitude that "I'm paying so much for camp, why should I have to pay anything extra?"

BTW OP, your gender-bias is showing. Boys also work as camp counselors and also should be tipped.

I don't understand why camps don't all agree to pay the staff more and in turn charge more to cover the difference.
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Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:01 pm
Well, while I do tip all the counselors and follow exactly what the tip sheet says, I do resent it. I resent that the camp doesn't up their fee by $100 or even less so that counselors are just paid more. The sheets annoy me.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:03 pm
zaq wrote:
ITA that the counselors should be tipped, because even at the priciest camps they're getting way less than minimum wage. Shamefully less. The camps can get away with it because the law assumes they're getting tipped, just like people in other service industries, e.g. waiters and table bussers. But many folks have the attitude that "I'm paying so much for camp, why should I have to pay anything extra?"

BTW OP, your gender-bias is showing. Boys also work as camp counselors and also should be tipped.

I don't understand why camps don't all agree to pay the staff more and in turn charge more to cover the difference.


I agree with you except I only have girls so I was writing from that POV!
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:34 pm
I forgot to tip. I'm not happy about it, but that's what happened. the camp was a little over the top with their tip sheets, and the amounts they recommended were ridiculous. I would have tipped the counselor, jc, and bus monitor. I intend to tip the bus driver at the end of the summer. however, they have recommended for main morah $30 (married women) senior counselor $15, I think, and jc $10. bus counselor another $5. and then they want us to tip the specialties! now, there are six or seven of those, these are adults and one hopes they're being paid. they spend 45 minutes with my kid per week and don't know the kids' names. I appreciate that they're keeping my kids occupied, but I don't feel it's my job to tip them. if you calculate the recommended tips from this camp, for two kids in the day camp, you should be spending $400 on tips for the summer. sorry, that's ridiculous. especially on top of the cost of day camp itself. as I said, I would have tipped the morahs, but the camp has been sending home that sheet every other day for the past week and a half, plus they put it in the newsletter. I get two copies each time. I read it the first time, and then threw them all out as they came. who needs to read it again? so I forgot that the first half ended at the end of last week. (it's still july, I feel it should still be first half.)

I really wish these camps would spend less money on gimmicks and more on the counselors. preschool kids don't need to bring home a whole bunch of stuff every week. they don't need extra prizes, little color printed business cards saying "look what I baked today," tchatchkes and such. I definitely wish they'd pay the teenagers more.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:37 pm
mummiedearest wrote:
I forgot to tip. I'm not happy about it, but that's what happened. the camp was a little over the top with their tip sheets, and the amounts they recommended were ridiculous. I would have tipped the counselor, jc, and bus monitor. I intend to tip the bus driver at the end of the summer. however, they have recommended for main morah $30 (married women) senior counselor $15, I think, and jc $10. bus counselor another $5. and then they want us to tip the specialties! now, there are six or seven of those, these are adults and one hopes they're being paid. they spend 45 minutes with my kid per week and don't know the kids' names. I appreciate that they're keeping my kids occupied, but I don't feel it's my job to tip them. if you calculate the recommended tips from this camp, for two kids in the day camp, you should be spending $400 on tips for the summer. sorry, that's ridiculous. especially on top of the cost of day camp itself. as I said, I would have tipped the morahs, but the camp has been sending home that sheet every other day for the past week and a half, plus they put it in the newsletter. I get two copies each time. I read it the first time, and then threw them all out as they came. who needs to read it again? so I forgot that the first half ended at the end of last week. (it's still july, I feel it should still be first half.)

I really wish these camps would spend less money on gimmicks and more on the counselors. preschool kids don't need to bring home a whole bunch of stuff every week. they don't need extra prizes, little color printed business cards saying "look what I baked today," tchatchkes and such. I definitely wish they'd pay the teenagers more.


Its not too late!
You could still send it in and Im sure they will happily mail it!
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:40 pm
amother wrote:
mummiedearest wrote:
I forgot to tip. I'm not happy about it, but that's what happened. the camp was a little over the top with their tip sheets, and the amounts they recommended were ridiculous. I would have tipped the counselor, jc, and bus monitor. I intend to tip the bus driver at the end of the summer. however, they have recommended for main morah $30 (married women) senior counselor $15, I think, and jc $10. bus counselor another $5. and then they want us to tip the specialties! now, there are six or seven of those, these are adults and one hopes they're being paid. they spend 45 minutes with my kid per week and don't know the kids' names. I appreciate that they're keeping my kids occupied, but I don't feel it's my job to tip them. if you calculate the recommended tips from this camp, for two kids in the day camp, you should be spending $400 on tips for the summer. sorry, that's ridiculous. especially on top of the cost of day camp itself. as I said, I would have tipped the morahs, but the camp has been sending home that sheet every other day for the past week and a half, plus they put it in the newsletter. I get two copies each time. I read it the first time, and then threw them all out as they came. who needs to read it again? so I forgot that the first half ended at the end of last week. (it's still july, I feel it should still be first half.)

I really wish these camps would spend less money on gimmicks and more on the counselors. preschool kids don't need to bring home a whole bunch of stuff every week. they don't need extra prizes, little color printed business cards saying "look what I baked today," tchatchkes and such. I definitely wish they'd pay the teenagers more.


Its not too late!
You could still send it in and Im sure they will happily mail it!


lol. I happen to know where the bus counselor lives, and her sis is still working. I intend to give it to the sis. however, I was answering the question. why don't parents tip? sometimes they get so used to the camp nagging them that they don't realize when they have to tip by. Smile
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:43 pm
Because I paid for camp. If the camp doesn't want to pay the counselors, and expects parents' tips to cover the difference, that should be disclosed with the tuition forms for camp and not at the end of the session.

The camp requests $5/counselor/week. With three counselors in each bunk, that's close to 15% of what I was told it would cost. That's a lot, IMO.

I remember being a 12 year old counselor getting paid $5/day for 5 hour days. Maybe 1/4 of the parents tipped me and I was totally shocked to be getting tips. Just wasn't on my radar at all.
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madys




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:50 pm
The only time I considered not tipping, was to the bus counselor.

She never got up from her seat to walk my son on/off the bus and cross him to our house. We called the camp to see if it was something that should be required as part of her job, and they said they would mention it to her. Either they never mentioned it, or she just didn't listen, but she never walked him on/off the bus.

In the end, we did tip her a small tip, just because we know her family. DH davens in the same shul as her father.

PS my girls go to a different camp, and their bus counselor always walks them on/off the bus and crosses them.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:53 pm
All my DDs are working as counselors, and I've admonished them not to count on tips in planning their compensation for the summer. If they are not satisfied with the salary offered by the camp, they should not accept employment there.

It's not just a matter of money! It it complete ganeva on the part of camps to saddle parents with the extra responsibility of calculating tips; getting cash; readying envelopes, making sure the right envelope goes to the right counselor, etc. Multiply this by even a few children and it involves at least several hours of work.

What? I'm not willing to spend several hours rewarding the people who worked so hard with my kids all summer? Frankly, if I had plenty of extra time, I wouldn't be sending my kids to camp in the first place (see all 100+ pages on this topic!).

The answer is not to encourage parents to participate and endorse a broken system; the answer is to send a clear and firm message to the camps that parents are fed up with being nickled and dimed to death as well as asked to serve as the camp's payroll processor -- no matter whether this is a pricey camp or price chompers deluxe camp.

As for thank you notes, inexpensive gifts, etc. Obviously I'm not opposed -- my DDs have been given some really thoughtful and nice gifts from the "dollar store" over the years -- but it should not be viewed as part of the compensation.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:54 pm
amother wrote:
Because I paid for camp. If the camp doesn't want to pay the counselors, and expects parents' tips to cover the difference, that should be disclosed with the tuition forms for camp and not at the end of the session.

The camp requests $5/counselor/week. With three counselors in each bunk, that's close to 15% of what I was told it would cost. That's a lot, IMO.

I remember being a 12 year old counselor getting paid $5/day for 5 hour days. Maybe 1/4 of the parents tipped me and I was totally shocked to be getting tips. Just wasn't on my radar at all.



So when you go to a restaurant, you also pay alot for your meal. You dont tip either??? shock
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Bea21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:54 pm
amother wrote:

I remember being a 12 year old counselor getting paid $5/day for 5 hour days. Maybe 1/4 of the parents tipped me and I was totally shocked to be getting tips. Just wasn't on my radar at all.


But what about counselors that are above 12 years old? 16-18 year old counselors are worth more than the camp pays them (and they work really hard to keep your kids safe and entertained for so long) and they know it!
Also, if the camp sends out a "suggested tipping" paper, the counselors know full well about it, and don't feel that tipping is "not on [their] radar." On the contrary, they expect it as part of their salary.
I remember being a day camp counselor in a wealthy bungalow colony, and telling the kids "remember to take this paper home to your parents." My friends who were counselors for younger kids would pin the tipping notice to the kids' shirts.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 2:54 pm
amother wrote:
Because I paid for camp. If the camp doesn't want to pay the counselors, and expects parents' tips to cover the difference, that should be disclosed with the tuition forms for camp and not at the end of the session.

The camp requests $5/counselor/week. With three counselors in each bunk, that's close to 15% of what I was told it would cost. That's a lot, IMO.

I remember being a 12 year old counselor getting paid $5/day for 5 hour days. Maybe 1/4 of the parents tipped me and I was totally shocked to be getting tips. Just wasn't on my radar at all.


I agree that the camp should say upfront that the cost of the camp includes the camp fee, trips, etc...and also the cost of tipping the counselors.

My DD is in sleep-away camp, and the camp guide book stated the tip fees up-front. I appreciated this and was happy to tip DD's counselors and waitress, whom she adores, on visiting day.

If a parent didn't know upfront that there will be tips in the cost, then it does seem unfair. They should be able to make the choice about whether they can afford the camp costs, with all the costs laid out in front of them, at the outset when they make the decision to send there.

Once you know what the costs are, IMVHO it's really really wrong to short-change by under-tipping. My DD's camp has a range, and it wouldn't dawn on me to give less than the minimum tip, and I do my best to give as much as I can afford within the suggested range.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 3:03 pm
I will tip, as I always have, but I am annoyed by the message sent home from the counselors to give your mother the note and tell her it's very important. There wasn't much interaction between said counselors and my 6 year old all summer, certainly no warmth shown, so I don't necessarily feel they deserve it, but out of politeness I will nevertheless tip.
There is NO reason for the price these day camps charge, no expensive trips, no expensive arts and crafts, at least they should spend our money to pay the counselors decent salaries.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 3:08 pm
I assume that the reason that camps expect that most counselors will receive the bulk of their compensation through tips is to enable the camps to save on payroll taxes. If the camp were to pay the counselors the amount of the tips, then they would need to charge something like 125% or more of the tips in addition to what you're already paying.

I also think that camps assume that all parents know that tips are expected, like every other service industry.
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obagys




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 3:13 pm
I was once an overworked and underpaid camp counselor/JC/etc. Only I got no tips at all for all those summers that I worked so hard, with the exception of ONE mother who gave me $10 once. I even had a bunk of 13 kids where one kid had epilepsy, one had asthma and one had diagnosed ADHD. Not one of those parents tipped me either, though I had to put in a tremendous amount of extra time and energy in dealing with those children and ensuring their safety (multiple asthma attacks, some seizures, etc etc).

Fast forward to my kids going to day camp. For the first few years, I didn't send a tip. I didn't even THINK to send a tip, cause I had never been tipped and it didn't occur to me. Then the tipping sheets would come home and I was all shock . But knowing what I had been through, it made sense to me to tip these poor, overworked kids. Only when I tallied up how much it would cost to tip all the counselors/JCs/Rebbes/etc for all 4 of my campers, it totaled about $300!!! That's not pocket change, so yeah, I can see why some mothers don't send a tip - it's expensive on top of the cost of camp. It's not that people don't want to show hakaras hatov, it's that some people a) don't think of it b) can't afford it. Though there is no good excuse for not writing a sincere thank you card instead.

BTW, for the person who said she forgot - I didn't know who my son's Rebbe was in camp and when I asked I got conflicting responses. My son told me one person and other people told me a different person, so in the end I sent nothing. It was finally clarified for me at the end of the summer, but by then school was starting and camp was long over, so I still didn't do anything. But at Chanukah time, I made it a point to mail that Rebbe a $50 check with a thank-you note, and boy, he was so appreciative. Tsnius or not (j/k), the next time this Rebbe saw me, he gave me the hugest, warmest smile and told me how much he loved teaching my son.

BTW, I think the counselors can be a little more tactful about tips sometimes also, though. For one of my girls, I didn't send in the tip until the last day of camp (they requested to send tips in a bit earlier), and that counselor told my daughter to remind me to send in her "special envelope". I did because I still appreciated the great summer this counselor provided my daughter with, but it was really off-putting for this girl to demand it.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 3:19 pm
For those of you who think it's off-putting for a counselor to remind the parents (sublety or not) about tips....if you were working a job and the employer neglected to pay you, would you remind him that he owes you $$$?

I think the problem is really - if you are partners with the camp in covering that payroll, you need to know upfront what your costs will be, so you can make an educated decision about whether you can afford that camp cost. Either camps should inform parents upfront - the cost of this camp is X amount per trip, plus y in tips....or they should up the prices and do all the paying.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 3:22 pm
At this point is there any parent in the great USA who does NOT KNOW that Counselrs are expected to be tipped?
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 27 2011, 3:31 pm
amother wrote:
At this point is there any parent in the great USA who does NOT KNOW that Counselrs are expected to be tipped?


Actually, where I live (Lakewood) most of the daycamps do not have expected tipping. The counselors receive payment from the camp, and anything you would tip a counselor would be at your own Hakaras Hatov initiative, as opposed to an expected contribution toward their salary.

My DD's sleepaway camp is my first tipping experience, and I'm glad they were up front about the costs as I accounted for them when calculating my camp costs.
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