discussing your children in the presence of women without

lucy

Sat, Mar 26 2005, 11:32 pm

I don't know if this is the right forum or not.
I was discussing with some friends about discussing your children in the presence of women who are married for a while (sometimes over a yr) and do not have children YET (bc IY"H they will soon, amen!). So what does eveyone think on this?

queenie

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 2:40 am

If a person is uncomfortable with a conversation they are adult enough to leave. Also, you are assuming that that person that doesn't have children has a problem with the conversation. I know someone married for 10 years without children. In fact, she works in a garderie. She has been extremely helpful to discuss problems with. Far better than any mother bc she has been working for many years with all sorts of children and she is much more subjective. Perhaps people without children would like to be involved in these topics so they are just like everyone else and not singled out.

basmalkah

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 9:06 am

Not every lady that does not have children is the same. Also, you never know what is going on behind "closed doors". Yes, from experience, some of us do appreciate your sensitivity by just thinking for a minute you speak.Of course, don't make it obvious that you are avoiding talking about your children, pregnancy or labor because that is very hurtful. If we participate in a conversation, just let it continue and be normal.

queenie wrote:
If a person is uncomfortable with a conversation they are adult enough to leave.
It's not always possible to leave without making a scene, which can be very uncomfortable.

So, yes it is good to be sensitive yet remember at the same time that we are normal and want to be treated normally.
Thanks Lucy. Smile

queenie

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 10:24 am

Now, back to the actual topic....

If you do know that someone is SENSITIVE about the topic then I would not actually start a conversation about it. You can also try to steer the conversation away from the topic too.

If someone quietly excuses themself for example and says, "I have to use the bathroom." and just doesn't return then other people might subtly get the message. There are ways to do these things.

I have been to very frum events where the women were so gossipy that I had to leave. Yes, they all knew why I was leaving even though I just quietly left. But you know, the next time I was with them they acted differently.

deedee

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 11:19 am

there are also people who can be overly sensitive.
some one I know (married for a few yrs w/o children) got a call from one of her close friends inviting her to the bris of her son. she was so shocked cause she didnt even know her friend was preg!!! the person I know was crying and very hurt by this, even though her friend was trying to be "sensitive" by not talking about her preg. Sad

basmalkah

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 11:52 am

I once had my neighbor (who I am not close with) call me to ask if we would be kvatter at her son's bris. She explained to me that she could not think of anyone else to do it,so she called us.
How silly!!!
I told her that she should ask someone else because kvatter could be anyone - not just a couple who need a bracha for children.
So, yes, people need to be very careful!

ForeverYoung
Guest

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 11:55 am

Quote:

I was discussing with some friends about discussing your children in the presence of women who are married for a while (sometimes over a yr) and do not have children YET

You might look at it this way - it is not only that they might be jealous of you having kids, also this excludes them from the conversation, as they cannot chip in "When my ... was a baby... "

I'd say it is plain rude to have a children centered conversation when some people in the group cannot even participate in it.

But if one pays attention, she will see the look on somebody's face that will tell that it's time for a topic change
(looking at the ceiling w/ interest, rumuging in a purce, stopped talking, etc)

Ozmom

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 5:19 pm

basmalka but it is customary to get someone who needs a brocha for children and it doesn't necessarily have to be someone close, so I don't understand why you would turn it down. I don't think it was silly at all. The only thing that was silly was her saying that she couldn't think of anyone else. She should have just said could you be our kvatter and finished.
Were you offended by her request?

about discussing kids, its inevitable that when they are the focus of our lives they will creep into our conversations, the important thing is as FY said that we should be more aware and pay attention to peoples faces and body language. This is a skill we should all work on aquiring in general.
Another important skill - "syag l'chochmo shtikah"

Oh yeah and also like basmalka says, don't make it obviouse that you are avoiding a subject coz of the person, that only makes things worse

basmalkah

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 6:21 pm

[quote="Ozmom"]basmalka but it is customary to get someone who needs a brocha for children and it doesn't necessarily have to be someone close, so I don't understand why you would turn it down. I don't think it was silly at all. The only thing that was silly was her saying that she couldn't think of anyone else. She should have just said could you be our kvatter and finished.
Were you offended by her request?

I know that it is a segulah for children - but it was the way this silly person said it. Also, nature doesn't always allow us to accept the offer.
I was not offended by her request at all, just startled with her reasoning. We have been kvatter at quite a few other brissim for people with whom we felt comfortable.

lucy

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 10:51 pm

Okay I think I missed something here or perhaps some posts were editted?

I think that ppl tend to ONLY discuss their children when in public. (I'm sure I am at fault aswell embarrassed

) I love my children but there are other aspects of my life that can be disscussed.

FY: I didn't say that they were jealous CHV's but when you are married for some time or other scenarios (that no one should ever experience ever!) you are not jealous but it brings up memories or a void, or even a thought of "will I ever get to say "you know what my son did today...."

Basmalka: You don't ask some to kvatter like that. Maybe it was her brain pausing bc of lack of sleep but think B4 you talk! I have had ppl ask me like that and it made me feel like garbage. Not BC I wa jealous of the couple but what I look like somesort of rachmunis case, you have no idea what is going on in my life I could have been pregnant when you even asked!

ForeverYoung
Guest

Sun, Mar 27 2005, 10:57 pm

Quote:

FY: I didn't say that they were jealous CHV's but when you are married for some time or other scenarios (that no one should ever experience ever!) you are not jealous but it brings up memories or a void, or even a thought of "will I ever get to say "you know what my son did today...."

jealousy is wanting what someboy has and you don't.
However, it matters not how we classify it, what matters is what we do about those who might be hurt by out thougtless remarks

Quote:

You don't ask some to kvatter like that.

people manage to be offencive even if there is no grounds for offence:
when we were newly married & B'H preagnant (not noticible) we were offered the honour by a few people.
One of them gave us a speech (surely feeling great about their goodness) how this is a wonderful segula for children. The sounded like we H'V have a problem, lo aleinu.

Pearl

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 8:10 am

ok, back to the topic then.....

I have a friend, she's very dear to me, who got pregnant after 7 yrs trying, with triplets. 2 didn't survived during preg, but she B"H had a beautiful daughter! she's been trying for 4 yrs now to get pregnant again, so far, not successful.
anyway, when I got pregnant the last time, I waited for a long time to tell her, but of course eventually I did, and she shared my happiness with a tear. open communication between friends - it will safe the friendship! she never gave hand me downs, cause she was waiting for another chid to hand them down to. but now she is giving everything to me, as she said it's too much...... Crying

whenever in the company of women not blessed with children, I try to be sensitive, but as the children are part of my life, B"H, they are a subject every now and then.....

queenie

Sun, May 08 2005, 8:46 pm

Most of us here seem to agree that this is a sensitive subject. I know that this site if for mothers. but, many people have said that they don't want to leave out their friends who don't have children from conversations. Why not include them in this site? Perhaps a new thread should be added.

Where do frum married women go that do not have children to discuss things? Who says that the only place for them is Atime.com? Infertility isn't the only subject in their life. Many topics here don't have to do with children. I think this site should be open to all frum women, married or divorced. Don't forget that there are also women that are still single and older that also need a forum.

IndyMom

Sun, May 08 2005, 9:03 pm

So far the kvatters at both of my boys brises had a baby. One of them was even just a little over 9 months after the bris. I definitely think it must be a segulah (and I am usually skeptical in these matters).

I was just thinking of this subject before I logged on today. My new neighbors across the street are in their 30s and just got married last summer. I was talking to the lady outside while my youngest was playing with chalk and dirt and being so cute. I was wondering if she felt jealous or annoyed that he was interupting us. I wonder if she is annoyed by my huge belly. I don't know. I think if I didnt have children I would be very jealous of those who did, but I am very sensitive on these issues. Like I am jealous just when I see mothers who breastfeed so easily. This lady isn't jewish. I know she is trying to start a family as soon as possible (she already quit her job). I just hope she gets pregnant fast so I can feel more comfortable around here. Also. they have a swimming pool in their backyard so I would love if she had a baby so my kids can be friends with her kids and we could use the pool. Smile

Yael

Sun, May 08 2005, 9:51 pm

just by the way, we do have women on this forum who do not yet have children. even though it started as a mother's site, it has evolved into a married women's site. if a women has been married and is now divorced but has kids, she would be welcome too. but an unmarried girl would not be allowed to enter b/c it wouldnt be appropriate given the things spoken about in the married life and taharas hamishpacha sections.

supermom

Mon, May 09 2005, 4:10 am

funny this thread came back again.When I was pregnant with our daughter everyone was too scared to tell my sister in law that we were pregnant. she has been married for two years and still no kids. so when I was speaking to her on a motzei shabbos I got into the conversation not knowing that my mother in law never told her. and she said you are pregnant shock

I was shocked that no one told her. I felt a little guilty but really now who was going to tell her and when? when I gave birth or something since she doesn't live around here and only comes every once in a while. it would have been even more insulted to her then. should people that don't have kids never know when soemone else is pregnant or not.

now for the kvatter it is such a big segulah not only for kids but it says that whom ever is the kvatter and sandek is whom the baby midot take after. I don't know about others but were we live people tend to be very picky and chosy about those two and whomever would be honored they don't take an offense but think of it as a zechut.