BY girl/Yeshiva boy in Ivy League

abby1776

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:26 pm

I went to Colombia, a long time ago (1991-1995) and lived in the Dorm. I lived only with girls. My first year on a single relations floor, and later in all girl apartments. But I would not reccomend it now - times have changed quite a bit and there are a lot of negative influences in college dorms. I do not know how my parents let me do it and now that I am a parent I would never let my child do it. I would make them live at home.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:35 pm

They will let you in, in a heartbeat, because you will give them a diversity element to enrich the other kids' college experience. Isn't that attractive? Your young person will have to play Bad Guy or Idiot in discussions, defending his/her wild and woolly, oldfashioned, repressive, sexist, medieval ideas. Sounds great, doesn't it? Sharpens the mind. After enough teasing, you may even lose him/her. Even if you don't, he/she will never have the same degree of innocence again. He/she will know there is another way to live, up close and personal, far beyond what he/she knows now from walking around the city. In good times it may not matter. But when people have crises, and life is long, these outlets are sometimes taken, when one is mad at G-d.

Translation: are you out of your mind?

Parting remark: do you really think these degrees cost out? Except for engineering, perhaps, they don't. Certainly not law. Possibly medicine. Not architecture. Anything else, forget it. Google 'higher education bubble'.

Buy an apartment in Jerusalem with the money. Get married cheaply there. Have babies. Lots of babies. If you are curious about secular intellectual heritage, get tutors. There are a billion of them unemployed who would be thrilled.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

sequoia

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:40 pm

abby1776 wrote:

I went to Columbia, graduated in '06. There were lots of frum students and they mostly stuck together, taking over entire floors.

Living in the dorm is so much fun. The kids who were forced to live at home were very unhappy about it.

sequoia

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:42 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Buy an apartment in Jerusalem with the money. Get married cheaply there. Have babies. Lots of babies. If you are curious about secular intellectual heritage, get tutors. There are a billion of them unemployed who would be thrilled.

You're adorable LOL

But my professors are people I will remember, and be grateful to, my entire life.

sequoia

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:43 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong.

But what actually happened to those frum kids? That was '06. It's five years later now. Consequences? Results? Fallout? You probably know.

They all married each other or Stern girls/YU boys and have 1-2 kids by now.

abby1776

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:47 pm

I dont know about '06 - but all the people I lived with are still frum, have good jobs, nice families and live all over (israel, the US, Europe, Australia). There are a couple who are still single on the UWS - but I think their issues have to do with being single on the UWS and not because they went to Columbia or lived in the dorm.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:48 pm

Well OK.

But they had a critical mass. Not just one, thrown to the wolves.

I still think the money would go further in the apartment in Jerusalem, for true utility, long term.

Inflation is building, buy anything that you will need long term now. It may be out of reach very soon. These kids already have an education, the kind that gives life. The other stuff is the seasoning of learning, as it says in Avos. Pleasant, but that's not what puts meat on bones.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 6:59 pm

Aha! Ouch! Abby 1776, you just proved my case. How do you think they ended up on the UWS? Their college experience was the conduit, the exit ramp, the greased chute, straight into that flypaper place where so many feet stick for far too long. Tragic.

I think they would be better off having dinner at the Chabad in Jackson, WY. The mountains are probably pretty.

The weather is still nice now, so suggest they spend a few days with Chabad there, making a civilized voluntary financial contribution to it afterward, naturally. Breathe a little free air. City air used to make free, but perhaps that has been reversed. Maybe now country air makes free. Who knows. Kick over traces.

Easier said than done. Your friends are in deep, er, flypaper. I am so sorry.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Wed, Aug 17 2011, 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 7:10 pm

Dolly, your comments leave me scratching my head....there are plenty of people stuck on the UWS who went to local sub par colleges, too. Or no college. Who come from all paths of life - it's a totally separate discussion. The only connectio between the UWS and Columbia is proximity.

I graduated from Barnard a decade ago and my Columbia/Barnard friends are all married with kids, not one off the derech. Some have careers, some don't. Most got married either in college or within a few yrs after. No horror stories. I think you're trying to make something out of nothing. And if you're right wing enough to be so appalled by college life, then no it's not for your child. But to say no one can come out uncorrupt is just foolish and simply not true.

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 7:18 pm

I am not so absolute as to say NOBODY can handle the cross winds. Sure, some can.

I don't hate ithe UWS at all! It's fine, if you have your stuff truly together already, first, when you go there. But, I think the proverb about the UWS for singles is 'your're here either for six months or six years'.

What do you see in front of your eyes with your own friends? Maybe they will come through ok, we all hope so, and some do, but is the wind with them? No. Your own description says it all.

Sorry to be cranky.

Young people who don't have BY/Yeshiva backgrounds find their besherts their own way, and I wish them well. You could say they have no other choice. But, this post was about whether BY/Yeshiva kids should go to the Ivy League. THEY do have another choice, so there is some risk. OK, some of them, or many, do fine. But I wonder what justifies the risk - salary later? Seeing the world a bit? A touch of class?

Nah, buy the apartment in Jerusalem. Just my humble opinion.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Wed, Aug 17 2011, 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

sequoia

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 7:19 pm

amother wrote:

Also, for the record, there are actual couples and families living on the upper west side, as well as people who are happily single for now. It's not some kind of wasteland.

cookiecutter

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 7:44 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Why is it okay to be hateful when you're talking about people who are further to the left?

amother

Wed, Aug 17 2011, 7:53 pm

Your question definitely resonates with me. I grew up MO, and lived in the dorms of an "elite" college, whatever that means. Not an ivy league, but close to it.

This school does not have a large frum population, but there is a small critical mass. I know I am definitely an exception, but my hashkafa changed in college, and I moved more to the right. There was one BY girl who commuted, but as far as I know, BY in that area really does not do much to help the kids get in and it's not easy to get in without the school's support. There were also one or two yeshiva guys that commuted.

I am very conflicted at this point as to whether I would encourage my children to go to an elite academic institution. Aside from the fact that I'm really not sure the education is worth the price tag, there are so many things that can go wrong on a college campus, even for a person that is extremely well grounded in their frumkeit. Having lived in college dorms, I really think it is almost impossible to live in a college dorm and uphold a BY hashkafah. MO, definitely, even right wing MO I think could make it work. But there are always risks.

Just like any other situation, you have to know your child. Some can handle it, some can't. And sometimes it's really hard to know which will be which. Through my years at college, I was surprised many times about who came out frum and who did not.