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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette
Don't Ever Say "B'sha'ah Tova" !!
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Have you ever been wished "B'Shaah Tovah" when you were not expecting?
Yes  
 34%  [ 53 ]
No  
 58%  [ 89 ]
I've said this before, and she wasn't... OOPS!  
 6%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 152



morah




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 3:06 pm
I have NEVER EVER met or heard of anyone getting upset that someone did not tell them b'sha'a tova when they were pregnant; I know a million and one people who DID get upset when someone said it and they were NOT pregnant. It's really hurtful- because you've either essentially told someone they were fat, or you've reminded someone suffering from infertility or a miscarriage of their painful situation.
My parents told me, never, ever insinuate that someone is pregnant if you didn't hear it directly from her- not even if she's a stick who's 2 weeks overdue and in labor! It's so simple. There is NO downside to keeping your mouth shut, and so many potential problems if you don't, so just don't do it!
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Happy18




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 3:23 pm
amother wrote:
My friend came over and asked when I was due. It was just after we found we need IVF to conceive...

I had something similar happen to me.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 3:56 pm
And even worse -- wishing someone a mazal tov when you see them no longer pregnant. A wrongful b'sha'a tova can insult, but a wrongful mazal tov can really tear someone apart.

I was with my mother as a child when she greeted a woman in our community with an enthusiastic "mazal tov, what did you have?" only to see the woman run away in tears. We later found out she had a stillbirth.
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DovDov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 4:00 pm
It's funny, you only have this problem up to a certain stage of overweight. Once you become obese, people just assume it's fat no matter what. I'm 28 weeks pregnant, and every so often someone will abashedly offer me a seat on a crowded train, clearly not wanting to insinuate I was pregnant if I wasn't but also not wanting to be rude, but every person I mention the pregnancy to acts shocked. Even though I'm clearly wearing maternity. Which is fine with me, by the way -- I'm not insulted, I just find it interesting that up to a point people assume fat is pregnancy and then past that point they jsut assume it's all fat.

I was talking about babies with a friend at school when a classmate who had sat directly across from me all semester came up and said "Oh, did you just find out you're pregnant?" I told her no, I hadn't just found out, I was due in five days! And it's not like I'd been hiding it, etiher -- it was a particularly boring class and I'd spent most of it sitting back with my hands on my belly enjoying feeling my baby move -- classic pregnant pose, IYKWIM.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 4:07 pm
amother wrote:
And even worse -- wishing someone a mazal tov when you see them no longer pregnant. A wrongful b'sha'a tova can insult, but a wrongful mazal tov can really tear someone apart.

I was with my mother as a child when she greeted a woman in our community with an enthusiastic "mazal tov, what did you have?" only to see the woman run away in tears. We later found out she had a stillbirth.


Oh I think it could happen to anyone. You know I did the same thing and the woman answered, Yes, my mom is babysitting!

Do you usually ask about stillbirth first time you seen someone without pregnant belly? I guess not!
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DovDov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 4:10 pm
imaima wrote:
amother wrote:
And even worse -- wishing someone a mazal tov when you see them no longer pregnant. A wrongful b'sha'a tova can insult, but a wrongful mazal tov can really tear someone apart.

I was with my mother as a child when she greeted a woman in our community with an enthusiastic "mazal tov, what did you have?" only to see the woman run away in tears. We later found out she had a stillbirth.


Oh I think it could happen to anyone. You know I did the same thing and the woman answered, Yes, my mom is babysitting!

Do you usually ask about stillbirth first time you seen someone without pregnant belly? I guess not!


No, but I just don't say anything about a baby at all until she mentions it. I might ask how she's feeling or how she's sleeping, which will give her plenty of space to mention birth or baby if all went well.
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amother


 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 4:17 pm
[quote="Happy18"]
amother wrote:
My friend came over and asked when I was due. It was just after we found we need IVF to conceive...

I had something similar happen to me.[/quot

I went to visit a friend who I had not seen in a while. She looked like she was preg and I was so happppy that I did not say anything to her bc it turns out that not only was she not but she also had been desperately trying for a while. From that I have learned to keep my mouth shut. I'm so happy that I did not have to learn this lesson the hard way!
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ElTam




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 8:03 pm
Got the b'sha'ah tovah in the midst of having a misscarriage. (I didn't have a D&C so it was a three-week process.) I felt very bad for the woman who said it, because I looked really shocked and said, "What?!?" You could tell she felt very bad.

I don't say until a person puts on maternity.
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golden judgement




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 9:05 pm
I just had the uncomfortable experience of standing next to a friend at a social gathering who was asked by another woman, "So when's the baby due?". While she turned red and said, "Oh- I'm not pregnant!" I just stood there and said nothing. I felt terrible! What would be the appropriate response?
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jaysmom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 10:00 pm
I am so neurotic. Even if someone looks like they are about to pop I don't say anything.
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IloveHashem613




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 10:37 pm
I was once asked if I was pregnant when my baby was 6 months old. I was wearing something that emphasized my stomach area and I still had a little extra baby fat so my coworker said "wow b'shaa tova I had no idea you were expecting" so I said "oh trust me I'm not" lol. I honestly didn't make a big deal of it, it was an innocent mistake on her part and the truth is I was wearing something that me look a little preggo but I can understand someone being hurt if they gained weight or are trying to conceive for a while or soemthing....
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Juicy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 10:44 pm
although I'm skinny, my neighbor asked my little son whether heals excited that mommy's having a baby... my shirt was untucked & that must've made her think...
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smile85




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 23 2011, 11:44 pm
Why would someone say B'Sha'ah Tova if they aren't 100% sure the person's pregnant???

Maybe I go far with this, but when I meet someone new, (even at my age, 25) I never ask about their parents because who knows what their lives are like.

Why not just wait till they tell you, or SAY NOTHING!!!!!

Siyag L'Chachma Shetikah!
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Kayza




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2011, 1:47 am
imaima wrote:

I know it is not what you expected to hear, but people don't always remember when your previous baby was born. When the community life gets busy with many events and births and what not, do you expect everyone to always remember when you had your baby? After a couple of months it feels like it's been forever. So they see you have a belly and want to be polite and say Be shaa tova.

If you want to be polite KEEP QUIET. Never say anything that assumes pregnancy to a woman, unless you KNOW she is pregnant (ie she told you or something equally solid.) It has nothing to do with anyone remembering how old your last is - or even if there IS a "last" (see the other post about getting a "B'sha'a Tova" on the same day as she found out that she was going to need VF.)
Quote:

Would you be insulted if someone asked you whether you have a new sheitel, if your have your old one on? Or compliment on a new outfit which is not actually new? It is the same thing.

Far, far from it. A pregnancy comment when you are not pregnant either means "you're fat" or acts as a reminder of some painful things (miscarriage or trouble having a baby.) People don't mean to be hurtful, but we grew up knowing that you NEVER ask or comment about someone's supposed pregnancy without an opening from the pregnant woman. There was a good reason for that, and nothing has changed.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2011, 5:11 am
Kayza wrote:
imaima wrote:

I know it is not what you expected to hear, but people don't always remember when your previous baby was born. When the community life gets busy with many events and births and what not, do you expect everyone to always remember when you had your baby? After a couple of months it feels like it's been forever. So they see you have a belly and want to be polite and say Be shaa tova.

If you want to be polite KEEP QUIET. Never say anything that assumes pregnancy to a woman, unless you KNOW she is pregnant (ie she told you or something equally solid.) It has nothing to do with anyone remembering how old your last is - or even if there IS a "last" (see the other post about getting a "B'sha'a Tova" on the same day as she found out that she was going to need VF.)
Quote:

Would you be insulted if someone asked you whether you have a new sheitel, if your have your old one on? Or compliment on a new outfit which is not actually new? It is the same thing.

Far, far from it. A pregnancy comment when you are not pregnant either means "you're fat" or acts as a reminder of some painful things (miscarriage or trouble having a baby.) People don't mean to be hurtful, but we grew up knowing that you NEVER ask or comment about someone's supposed pregnancy without an opening from the pregnant woman. There was a good reason for that, and nothing has changed.


Yes, this is the way it is supposed to be. But it is not the way it happens. People do not always remember or assume things about you, even though they should. Even if you grew up knowing something, mistakes still happen. There are so many ways to possibly hurt people because there are so many things you possibly do not know about them - would you stop talking to people altogether?
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2011, 8:32 am
No, there are plenty of other things to talk about.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2011, 9:24 am
imaima wrote:
Kayza wrote:
imaima wrote:

I know it is not what you expected to hear, but people don't always remember when your previous baby was born. When the community life gets busy with many events and births and what not, do you expect everyone to always remember when you had your baby? After a couple of months it feels like it's been forever. So they see you have a belly and want to be polite and say Be shaa tova.

If you want to be polite KEEP QUIET. Never say anything that assumes pregnancy to a woman, unless you KNOW she is pregnant (ie she told you or something equally solid.) It has nothing to do with anyone remembering how old your last is - or even if there IS a "last" (see the other post about getting a "B'sha'a Tova" on the same day as she found out that she was going to need VF.)
Quote:

Would you be insulted if someone asked you whether you have a new sheitel, if your have your old one on? Or compliment on a new outfit which is not actually new? It is the same thing.

Far, far from it. A pregnancy comment when you are not pregnant either means "you're fat" or acts as a reminder of some painful things (miscarriage or trouble having a baby.) People don't mean to be hurtful, but we grew up knowing that you NEVER ask or comment about someone's supposed pregnancy without an opening from the pregnant woman. There was a good reason for that, and nothing has changed.


Yes, this is the way it is supposed to be. But it is not the way it happens. People do not always remember or assume things about you, even though they should. Even if you grew up knowing something, mistakes still happen. There are so many ways to possibly hurt people because there are so many things you possibly do not know about them - would you stop talking to people altogether?


A lot of little things you wouldn't think of can potentially insult someone and you're right, we can't always be sure, even if it's just a remark about the weather- hey, you never know, maybe her great-great-uncle Milton died in hurricane and it's a touchy subject, but you can't fault me for not knowing that or not thinking of the possibility.
But with pregnancy, it's so so simple. Everyone knows that it's possible that you're mistaken, and everyone knows that if you are mistaken, somebody's feelings are going to get hurt. There is literally no downside to keeping your mouth shut when it comes to pregnancy, and a million and one downsides to opening it.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2011, 11:36 am
I put on a lot of weight in the last year, and every other person in the community is asking me if I'm pregnant... Someone asked me what I'm expecting and I answered here a diet...

But the best of the best was this lady who came over to me and told me that some ladies were discussing the fact that I was pregnant, but she knows I'm not... How sensitive, thanks for letting me know!!! It made me laugh, because I will eventually loose the weight, but she may never get any tact...

Still I was hurt inside...
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mimimom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2011, 3:08 pm
I once read (in Miss Manners or the like) that you should NEVER comment on a woman's possible pregnant state unless you actually see the baby emerging! That guideline has saved me more than once!
Wink
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 24 2011, 5:54 pm
morah wrote:
But with pregnancy, it's so so simple. Everyone knows that it's possible that you're mistaken, and everyone knows that if you are mistaken, somebody's feelings are going to get hurt. There is literally no downside to keeping your mouth shut when it comes to pregnancy, and a million and one downsides to opening it.

I wouldn't say there's no downside at all. It can be awkward to be really obviously pregnant but nobody is saying anything. Then it's like, should I say something? But how dumb is it to announce pregnancy when it's so extremely obvious? But if it's so obvious, why has my friend not said anything? etc.

That said, I agree that the potential negative effect if you guess "pregnant" but are wrong is so much worse that it's best to err on the side of caution. Still, while I usually wouldn't wish "b'sha'a tova" to someone I don't know very well, if it were a friend or acquaintance and I know how they usually look and am 90+% sure they're pregnant, I'd probably ask someone if they are so that I could go ahead and wish them well.
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