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NotAPerfectangel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 12:04 am
Paul Harvey Writes:





We tried so hard to make things better for our kids that we made them worse. For my grandchildren, I'd like better.





I'd really like for them to know about hand me down clothes and homemade ice cream and leftover meat loaf sandwiches. I really would.





I hope you learn humility by being humiliated, and that you learn honesty by being cheated.





I hope you learn to make your own bed and mow the lawn and wash the car.





And I really hope nobody gives you a brand new car when you are sixteen.





It will be good if at least one time you can see puppies born and your old dog put to sleep.





I hope you get a black eye fighting for something you believe in.





I hope you have to share a bedroom with your younger brother/sister. And it's all right if you have to draw a line down the middle of the room,but when he wants to crawl under the covers with you because he's scared, I hope you let him.





When you want to see a movie and your little brother/sister wants to tag along, I hope you'll let him/her.





I hope you have to walk uphill to school with your friends and that you live in a town where you can do it safely





On rainy days when you have to catch a ride, I hope you don't ask your driver to drop you two blocks away so you won't be seen riding with someone as uncool as your Mom.





If you want a slingshot, I hope your Dad teaches you how to make one instead of buying one.





I hope you learn to dig in the dirt and read books.





When you learn to use computers, I hope you also learn to add and subtract in your head.





I hope you get teased by your friends when you have your first crush on a boy\girl, and when you talk back to your mother that you learn what ivory soap tastes like.





May you skin your knee climbing a mountain, burn your hand on a stove and stick your tongue on a frozen flagpole.





I don't care if you try a beer once, but I hope you don't like it. And if a friend offers you dope or a joint, I hope you realize he is not your friend.





I sure hope you make time to sit on a porch with your Grandma/Grandpa and go fishing with your Uncle.





May you feel sorrow at a funeral and joy during the holidays.





I hope your mother punishes you when you throw a baseball through your neighbor's window and that she hugs you and kisses you at Hannukah/x-mas time when you give her a plaster mold of your hand.





These things I wish for you - tough times and disappointment, hard work and happiness. To me, it's the only way to appreciate life.
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Purple Hug Bunny




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 12:19 am
Very nice!
thanx for posting.
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Sparkle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 1:15 am
I see the point...but kids went wrong back then too, you know...
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jewgal84




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 10:56 am
Intresting perspectives, thanks for sharing Very Happy .

I can't say I agree with most of his points, but the general idea is definately true.

I'm trying to diffrentiate the way I was brought up and my little siblings are now, life is so different, am I'm not that even old LOL !!
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 12:34 pm
jewgal84 wrote:
I'm trying to diffretiate the way I was brought up and my little siblings are now, life is so different, am I'm not that even old LOL !!


could you give some examples?
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jewgal84




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 12:46 pm
Motek wrote:
jewgal84 wrote:
I'm trying to diffretiate the way I was brought up and my little siblings are now, life is so different, am I'm not that even old LOL !!


could you give some examples?


Hmm... let's think (most of these examples are not taken from my house specifically, but what I've seen around other homes):

Bedtime for one...

I remember eating supper, having homework done, being bathed and put to sleep everynight at the same time and my parents were not up for negotiation in regards to it.

Going out freely...

Every time I'd want to hang out with my friends, I'd have to have an appropriate reason, my parents had to know who I was going with, have a curfew and always have a phone # they can reach me at.

Doing projects or reports for school...

It was my resposibilty to do my own reasearch, ie: going to the library, no use of free access to internet, copying and pasting from google was not tolerated etc

Foods to eat...

This is what I was given, you didn't like it, make it youself!

Cloths to wear...

Tznius was so important growing up, it actually meant something to us!!!

Chutzpah...

Answering back was not at all tolerated, even to think it was negotiable was a mistake on our part, and we suffered the consequences for it.
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 1:23 pm
Hey, sounds good to me. You mean parents don't think so anymore?
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carrot




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 1:42 pm
I think a lot of things are different just because of the technology that is available. When I was a kid if you had a problem during the day you had no choice but to deal with it on your own. Now with cell phones you have kids calling their parents with every little problem. It's crazy.

Also Jewgal about doing research papers... that is so true! I always felt so bad for the people in the old days who couldn't photocopy, and no Microsoft Word to cut/paste etc.... Well now I can't even imagine how I used to deal without the Internet!
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jewgal84




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 2:01 pm
Motek wrote:
Hey, sounds good to me. You mean parents don't think so anymore?


I just think there might be a lack of energy in trying to upraise your kids a certain way to find out that all their childrens friends are brought up differently which only adds chaos to your relationship with them.

And also what I find in many homes, parents try to do the exact opposite of what they were brought up with. They tend to spoil their kids, tolerate their chutzpah and become their childrens personal slaves Exploding anger erks me soo much!!!
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jewgal84




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 27 2006, 2:05 pm
carrot wrote:
I think a lot of things are different just because of the technology that is available. When I was a kid if you had a problem during the day you had no choice but to deal with it on your own. Now with cell phones you have kids calling their parents with every little problem. It's crazy.

Also Jewgal about doing research papers... that is so true! I always felt so bad for the people in the old days who couldn't photocopy, and no Microsoft Word to cut/paste etc.... Well now I can't even imagine how I used to deal without the Internet!


I totally agree with the modern technology being too available nowadays.

"Back in the days" if we weren't allowed to use the computer at home for any reason, missing a priviledge or bc mommy says so etc, there were no free caffee or libraries to run too...

As far as cell phones, I find it completely outrageous for kids/teens to own one.

I got my first cell when I was 20, on shluchos and didn't have a landline.
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 29 2006, 9:26 am
jewgal84 wrote:
I just think there might be a lack of energy in trying to upraise your kids a certain way to find out that all their childrens friends are brought up differently which only adds chaos to your relationship with them.


You would think that ALL parents would want to raise their kids the right way but ... you would think wrong! Confused
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amother


 

Post Sun, Oct 29 2006, 10:55 am
jewgal84 wrote:
Motek wrote:
jewgal84 wrote:
I'm trying to diffretiate the way I was brought up and my little siblings are now, life is so different, am I'm not that even old LOL !!


could you give some examples?


Hmm... let's think (most of these examples are not taken from my house specifically, but what I've seen around other homes):

Bedtime for one...

I remember eating supper, having homework done, being bathed and put to sleep everynight at the same time and my parents were not up for negotiation in regards to it.

Going out freely...

Every time I'd want to hang out with my friends, I'd have to have an appropriate reason, my parents had to know who I was going with, have a curfew and always have a phone # they can reach me at.

Doing projects or reports for school...

It was my resposibilty to do my own reasearch, ie: going to the library, no use of free access to internet, copying and pasting from google was not tolerated etc

Foods to eat...

This is what I was given, you didn't like it, make it youself!

Cloths to wear...

Tznius was so important growing up, it actually meant something to us!!!

Chutzpah...

Answering back was not at all tolerated, even to think it was negotiable was a mistake on our part, and we suffered the consequences for it.


jewgal, I know exactly what youre talking about and it drives me nuts. you brought good examples. I could go crazy from thinking about the things my younger siblings are doing that was absolutely unheard of in my days. and some of these things like for example the sudden leniency in tznius which I find shocking, yet there is nothing I can do about it because I am just a sister and the parent (my parent!) allows it. ive seen this in a few other families as well. its like the parents mellow out big time because they have been through so much with the older children already and think that these details arent important enough to argue over or wont make that much of a difference if they allow it. I think it is really wrong. I am watching my younger siblings grow up to be very immature and irresponsible without a single care for anything important in life. it's like I dont even know my own family. and when they come visit, I'm sorry to say that it is a big burden on me because its like having a whole bunch more babies around that I have to take care of. Rolling Eyes
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jewgal84




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 29 2006, 10:59 am
Motek wrote:
jewgal84 wrote:
I just think there might be a lack of energy in trying to upraise your kids a certain way to find out that all their childrens friends are brought up differently which only adds chaos to your relationship with them.


You would think that ALL parents would want to raise their kids the right way but ... you would think wrong! Confused


Unfortunely so Exploding anger !!

If we'd all go back to the "old school books", I'm sure many ppl would be doing the same things and raising their kids the same way.

It was either this way or NO way, and now with all the peer pressure and lack of proper/strict direction...
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jewgal84




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Oct 29 2006, 11:04 am
Quote:
jewgal, I know exactly what youre talking about and it drives me nuts. you brought good examples. I could go crazy from thinking about the things my younger siblings are doing that was absolutely unheard of in my days. and some of these things like for example the sudden leniency in tznius which I find shocking, yet there is nothing I can do about it because I am just a sister and the parent (my parent!) allows it. ive seen this in a few other families as well. its like the parents mellow out big time because they have been through so much with the older children already and think that these details arent important enough to argue over or wont make that much of a difference if they allow it. I think it is really wrong. I am watching my younger siblings grow up to be very immature and irresponsible without a single care for anything important in life. it's like I dont even know my own family. and when they come visit, I'm sorry to say that it is a big burden on me because its like having a whole bunch more babies around that I have to take care of.


Alot of ppl start noticing the pressure and difficulties once they marry and start raising their own children.

It's hard enough to see your own siblings misdirecting themselves, bc you feel you cannot get involved, after all you are NOT their parents. (And if the parents allow it, who are you to say otherwise Exclamation )

At the same time, what about those less fortunate, who you'd love to help but can't bc you're not even related Exploding anger !!

Many parents would take it too defense if they saw some1 else parenting their children and who can blame them What .

I'm not saying I'm the perfect person and who am I to judge on ppls individual situations...

Although it erks me when you know such a simple task can get resolved by just "tipping" them can also ruin your relationship and respect with them..
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chen




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 30 2006, 9:07 am
jewgal84 wrote:


Every time I'd want to hang out with my friends, I'd have to have an appropriate reason, my parents had to know who I was going with, have a curfew and always have a phone # they can reach me at.


Interesting. I have the opposite perspective--I feel my childhood had far more freedom than that of my children. At age 3 I was playing alone in front of the house with no one so much as watching me from the window. At 5 I walked to and from school alone, and by age 7 or 8 I went to friends' houses alone and came back alone. By age 11 I took the subway alone on short trips. And I was neither a child prodigy nor a neglected child! That was par for the course in those days. Of course we had to tell our folks where we were going, and we had to be home for dinner, and we had to call home when we got there if we were going away for Shabbos, but we pretty much went where we wanted when we wanted.

In contrast, I couldn't dream of letting my children out of the house alone for any reason until they were about 9 or 10, and they were in HS before they took mass transit alone. I let them go reluctantly, with great fear and trepidation, but realizing that life is full of risk and one has to let go eventually if one does not wish to cripple one's children.

jewgal84 wrote:
It was my resposibilty to do my own reasearch, ie: going to the library, no use of free access to internet, copying and pasting from google was not tolerated etc


Same deal. I could go to my public library alone when I was in grade school; my children could not. For one thing, their school day is longer and they can't get there before the library closes, and for another, the library is in an unsavory area that I would not my children in after dark even if the lobrary were open.. Furthermore, since they can't get to the library, a lot of research has to be done online. Our school has a "no unupervised internet" policy, so it means that I am the one doing the Googling and deciding which articles to let the children see.

I will admit to being both shocked and appalled when the children were allowed to use hand-held calculators in arithmetic class, though! The first time I was allowed to use a claculator was in college physics--and that was because it was our grasp of the principles of physics, not our arithmetic skills, that the prof was interested in.

jewgal84 wrote:


Tznius was so important growing up, it actually meant something to us!!!


I grew up in the miniskirt era. (No, I did not wear minis myself, but as the Abishter was good enough to bless me with chunky thighs, we'll never know what I would have done had I had Twiggy legs.) Our teachers gave us the very same tznius lectures that teachers give today.

jewgal84 wrote:


Answering back was not at all tolerated, even to think it was negotiable was a mistake on our part, and we suffered the consequences for it.


Hmm, I remember some of my classmates as being quite chutzpadik indeed. And I sincerely hope that my children never pull some of the shtick that I did in jr. high.

These are the "good old days" your children will look back upon with the same nostalgia you feel for the era in which you grew up--which is the same nostlagia your parents feel for their youth and your grandparents for theirs and so on backwards to the dawn of time.
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downsyndrome




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Oct 30 2006, 10:31 am
O-o-o-h-h-h, I just love this thread! Such nostalgia, such memories, such principles that were adhered to...and such sadness, that the main person in my life responsible for my past is no longer around, my dear mommy a'h.

Firstly, just yesterday I made good on the Ivory soap strategy; however, because Ivory is not a brand we endorse in our home, I reverted to black pepper on my little daughter's tongue for having spit at her older sister. Believe me, it was harder than kriyas yam suf to do it; this is a child who was very, very sick as a baby. When she was in the ICU as a newborn I swore to myself that I would always be good, gentle and kind to her if she survived, and here I was putting pepper on her tongue and evoking horrific sobs. But you know what? I told myself to stop feeling guilty because behind the black pepper there was true love and it was that love that was guiding me to the pepper.
I have a coupla' theories as to why things are a 'bit' different today. Like I had written in another post about women having babies at more advanced ages - I am one of those women. Hashem, in His infinite wisdom and humor, played the ultimate joke on me. I, who came from a relatively small family of only four children, and was sure that that was the number I would have too, and none above the age of let's say 32, have six children B'H, with the last three born between my ages of 36 - 41!!! What should I tell you....it's wonderful, beautiful, but extremely challenging. I have been raising children for the past 20 years non-stop! I go through burn-out at times and just let the kids have it the easy way because I feel that my kochos are leaving me, both physically and emotionally. That is an oft happening in today's generation. Women are having large families at advanced ages. It is very, very tough to discipline a toddler when the mother is 43 years old in the same fashion as a young mother who is 23 years old! My bones are creaking already and I am still chasing my little one off the table, off the countertops, out of sink-splashes, etc. and now I am even a bubby B'H and I am continuing to chase my own little ones. So, sometimes leniency sets in even though we are accutely aware that it is not right, we let things slide.....
My mother a'h lived by the adage: 'Mind over matter'. What she believed and what she felt was important, happened. No amount of fatigue, no amount of peeer pressure moved her. She was solid as a rock in her principles. We never joined those trips to Niagara Falls which were arranged under flimsy conditions with 'yeah, of course there will be adult supervision. Oh yes? Who are the adults? Oh, we aren't sure yet, but there will be....' She never fell for that and we stayed home while our friends joined and we thought our mother was the worst person in the world, until we came to the realization that she loved us a lot more than the parents who allowed their kids everything and everywhere and slept soundly with nary a worry in the world. How great it feels now (and how we didn't understand it then and would even still shmooze at the street corners) in retrospect when I remember that my mother did not close an eye all those nights when my friends were getting married and I'd come home after midnight. Until mom heard that key turn in the door lock she couldn't/wouldn't sleep! I can't say the same about myself now. My kids have so-o-o many evening commitments that I'd be up almost all my life waiting for them.
There is also a saying which I feel holds very true in all areas of life, 'Azoy vee ess goyisht zich, yiddish't zich'; it is unfortunate, but true. We live in a loose world, no morals, no discipline, no derech eretz, no hard work, no sweat.
Hashem should send us all siyata dishmaya....
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Oct 31 2006, 9:24 am
downsyndrome wrote:
...have six children B'H, with the last three born between my ages of 36 - 41!!!


What should my sister and sister-in-law and countless other women say who are 36 and have 8 children and who anticipate having more?

My friend (whose shidduch I made) got married in her thirties and she is pregnant with her 6th and she's 44! Her oldest is 8, not a newlywed!

Quote:
It is very, very tough to discipline a toddler when the mother is 43 years old in the same fashion as a young mother who is 23 years old!


I wonder whether all middle-aged mothers of toddlers agree with you. Some might very well tell you that at age 23 they were clueless about parenting and at 43 they are older and wiser.

Quote:
My bones are creaking already


Oy vey, and what will you say when you're 53? 63 and beyond?

Quote:
My mother a'h lived by the adage: 'Mind over matter'. What she believed and what she felt was important, happened. No amount of fatigue, no amount of peeer pressure moved her. She was solid as a rock in her principles.


Sounds like a great woman!
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downsyndrome




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 01 2006, 10:12 am
Motek wrote:
downsyndrome wrote:
...have six children B'H, with the last three born between my ages of 36 - 41!!!


What should my sister and sister-in-law and countless other women say who are 36 and have 8 children and who anticipate having more?

My friend (whose shidduch I made) got married in her thirties and she is pregnant with her 6th and she's 44! Her oldest is 8, not a newlywed!
Good for them! We are NOT all created equal! As for the friend who got married in her thirties, she started parenting at a much later age; even though it's an advanced age, she has still not been doing it for over twenty years! Do your sister-in-law and friend also have two special needs children in their brood? No self-pity here; I wear my challenges like a badge of honor, but nontheless, they do cause a lot more wear and tear on a mother.


Quote:
It is very, very tough to discipline a toddler when the mother is 43 years old in the same fashion as a young mother who is 23 years old!


I wonder whether all middle-aged mothers of toddlers agree with you. Some might very well tell you that at age 23 they were clueless about parenting and at 43 they are older and wiser.
Yes, I certainly feel wiser in my discipline strategies and I understand the 'workings' of children a lot better, but I sometimes feel that I am losing the perseverence and consistency to follow through completely on those strategies.

Quote:
My bones are creaking already


Oy vey, and what will you say when you're 53? 63 and beyond?
That they're creaking even more- lol!!

Quote:
My mother a'h lived by the adage: 'Mind over matter'. What she believed and what she felt was important, happened. No amount of fatigue, no amount of peeer pressure moved her. She was solid as a rock in her principles.


Sounds like a great woman!

Oh yes! She was some woman! When Hashem created her, He threw away the mold; They don't make 'em like her anymore! Crying
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downsyndrome




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 01 2006, 10:14 am
Oh Motek! You must, please, teach me how to excerpt quotes and then respond properly to them with the appropriate highlighting too! My above post is a mess - you can't differentiate between what you wrote and what I answered! However, the last quote did, in fact, come out good. Why is that?
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 02 2006, 12:58 pm
go back to that post and click on edit and you will see that you did not put the things you wanted in quotes in quotes!

and the last part, that is in quotes, you DID put in quotes

simple as that Smile

homework for you: edit your post so it's the way you want it! Smile
check it first by clicking on preview before you click submit
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