Secular education | Imamother

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Secular education

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amother

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 4:39 pm

How do you feel about secular education? Is it important? An extra? Something bad?
Do you feel differently about secular education for boys or girls?

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 4:51 pm

amother wrote:

How do you feel about secular education? Is it important? An extra? Something bad?
Do you feel differently about secular education for boys or girls?

Very important, for both boys and girls.

sequoia

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 5:03 pm

Secular and religious education are equally important.

honeygold

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 5:54 pm

I think secular education is equally important for boys and girls since it helps them have a career and support a family later in life and of course not be ignorant.

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 6:56 pm

Essential for everyone, for intellectual development as well as career.

Exactly what should be included varies from person to person according to his/her talents and needs.

Rodent

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 6:57 pm

Secular education is vitally important, definitely equal to Jewish education. Both sexes.

auntie_em

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 9:01 pm

Nothing to see...I was testing the built-in word censor/changer.

sequoia

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 9:16 pm

auntie_em wrote:

Nothing to see...I was testing the built-in word censor/changer.

Which word?

(PM me if you want Smile

)

ElTam

Sun, Sep 18 2011, 10:23 pm

Equally imporatant for boys and girls. You never know what's going to be in life. You need to be prepared.

AlwaysGrateful

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 10:32 am

Important. Does not compete with the importance of a religious education, but important nonetheless.

Ruchel

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 10:44 am

cm wrote:

Essential for everyone, for intellectual development as well as career.

Exactly what should be included varies from person to person according to his/her talents and needs.

That.
Yidden were also very big on that compared to their times and places, for some reason now it's not the case everywhere anymore.
Though if I had to compromise on one, it can't be kodesh.

amother

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 10:49 am

can I add a twist to the OP's thread?
do you think its possible to give your kids a successful secular education with the most important things they need to know, after school hours?
so they learn Kodesh at school, and at home you give them materials to learn what they need for life?

or are there some things you can only learn in a school setting with proper teaching?

Capitalchick

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 10:56 am

amother wrote:

It's not a question of the setting, rather a question of time. You could never offer a proper secular education after school hours. Kids need about 3-4 hours per day!

Ruchel

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 10:56 am

I believe in tutors, with a motivated kid. But again I also believe if you are not motivated you can "fall through" at school too. I was often in 35 to 40 pupil classes and believe me, if I wanted to do my homework, write a letter to a pen pal or play the gameboy (all true examples), I could and would.

If the hours are crazy, I believe in tutors a lot less. I also believe the ideal is a school giving at least some of the instruction you want.

Now at home, with just one pupil, no distraction, you can get a lot quicker and do not need as many hours. Also you don't need all the stuff you do in a full chol program: art, gym, music, you also don't necessarily need (as much) lit, and what won't be useful for a parnasa (XIth century French history?). Whatever interests the child can be learned alone, on side.

sequoia

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 10:58 am

Literature and history are essential, in my view.

Ruchel

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 11:04 am

I really don't think one should cover all history and all literary movements. I think in HS it's really unecessary for most kids, and won't be remembered. Now, if that's the person's calling it is entirely different. For the others, I would only teach what would be needed for a well rounded education.

DrMom

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 11:05 am

sequoia wrote:

Literature and history are essential, in my view.

I agree. I think being well-educated means being well-rounded, understanding the world around you, learning how to think in a critical way about complex issues, both theoretical and practical -- not just learning what is necessary to make a living.

amother

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 11:05 am

Very important, it can be done after school if the school day is short enough. There is nothing secular about science or math, the torah tells us to look back at history to help guide the future (jewish history is not complete nor informative without being completely tied in with world history), and it is an essential skill to be able to effectively communicate in at least one major language.

Ruchel

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 11:12 am

DrMom wrote:

sequoia wrote:

Literature and history are essential, in my view.

I think many things I learned in school did not help me or stay in my mind. I think also lots of time is lost over discipline, shhhhhhhh kids!!!, and repeating endlessly, with the exception of very strict schools where there is no shhhhhh and repeating, you do your lesson and too bad for the kids who didn't follow (or understand, sometimes).

If you want a well rounded kid, pushing unnecessary stuff into his mind won't do it. It needs to come from being around well rounded parents, unless he is motivated enough to read a lot and discuss a lot with well rounded people. Unfair but this is my experience.

sequoia

Mon, Sep 19 2011, 11:15 am

A schoolboy was once asked to write down everything he knew about Keats. He wrote, "I don't know anything about Keats. I don't even know what they are."

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