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What happened to the valedictorians?
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redhot




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 01 2006, 1:37 pm
in my grade the valedictorians are both becomming doctors. One is getting her M.D. Ph.D, and the other is getting her M.D. from TOP medical schools on full scholarships. GO THEM!!!

I had a really smart and studious grade. All of my friends have masters degrees. I dont know many from my school who didnt attend college, let alone graduate school.

Just to add... that statement about the not such good students becomming teachers is VERY frightening.
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chen




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 01 2006, 1:47 pm
sthillmom wrote:

Just to add... that statement about the not such good students becomming teachers is VERY frightening.


Not so. You don't have to be a genius to teach. You need to be able to make the subject matter understandable. Creativity, imagination, communication skills and people skills are much more impoirtant than superlative brain power.

I have had some geniuses as teachers and most of them utterly stank. they lacked either the skill or the desire to translate technical matter into language that mere mortals can understand. Many of them also lacked patience for students who didn't catch on right away. Some of the best teachers I ever met were just mediocre students. They know what it is to struggle to learn and understand, and make it their business to be understandable.
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carrot




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Nov 01 2006, 2:48 pm
Chen, good point!
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 02 2006, 10:27 am
Wow, some very interesting comments here since I last looked!

suomynona wrote:
marks don't make a difference in being a housewife and mother.


I'm thinking out loud here:
If marks don't make a difference later on in life, then why bother when in school? Answer (that applies to limudei kodesh): because even though knowing the contents of Sefer Shoftim or the Rashis in Bamidbar won't help one make Shabbos or bathe the kids, all that learning of limudei kodesh shaped one's outlook on Yiddishkeit, appreciation of Torah and a Jewish life which is then transmitted to one's children.

As for amother's post about "special people" (I wish you had used your screen name for this thoughtful and thought-provoking post, go on - tell us who you are!) I have a question:

What about our schooling prepares us to do all the things you enumerate as special? Anything? Confused Do you think the current curriculum is way off-base?

SaraYehudis wrote:
Every Jewish home is a Mikdash Me'at, so in those homes where the woman was a top student, probably learning would be more emphasized. ... Also, a girl's success in her school years often has a direct bearing on what type of shidduch she is offered ...


good points!

amother wrote:
I was the class valedictorian... I believe that one has to stive to be the biggest success they can be at each point in their lives. When in school , one has to excell to the best of their capabilities, when at a job the same , in raising yiddishe homes the same idea follows.


Thumbs Up

sthillmom wrote:
in my grade the valedictorians are both becomming doctors. One is getting her M.D. Ph.D, and the other is getting her M.D. from TOP medical schools on full scholarships. GO THEM!!!


Are they married? Do they have children? I wonder how ...
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ShakleeMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2008, 11:48 am
The valedictorians in my class were the absolute most boring dry personalities available. In my school it was numbers only. Today they are just as dry. Ick. And they diaper the same way I do. Go figureā€¦ except maybe I do it with more spunk?
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2008, 12:05 pm
Motek wrote:


Are they married? Do they have children? I wonder how ...


Some medicine universities offer nurseries, so some women, even non Jewish, end up with babies during their school time.

I had a frum acquaintance (charedi) who was a medicine student (remember in France there are still many charedi in university) and had a toddler. She lost a year and was exhausted all the time but didn't believe in birth control, according to what she told someone who was hinting it was crazy to have a baby at that time (she was sometimes spending nights at the hospital to learn, etc).

So these women are either like this, or their rav is ok with bc, or they delay shidduch, or have long engagements. I have seen all these possibilities in the frum world.

I have a frum friend getting a Phd in molecular biology and she is not even starting to date before she gets it (she is my age, 24). She just "looks around". I think her parents are getting a bit antsy.

A "head" can frighten "inferior" guys, but that's a good way to make a selection.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2008, 2:12 pm
Motek wrote:
Looking back to elementary school and high school, I can't see that the girls with the top marks accomplished anything special in life, more than the girls with average marks. And there have been surprises the other way, I.e. girls who were average, even ditzy, who have become wonderful homemakers, undertaking various projects (which I won't describe just in case ...) etc.


I don't find it surprising that girls who did not do well in school turn out to be excellent homemakers. As a former salutatorian (val. in JHS), I am primarily a homemaker now - and that is what I want to be. I don't think I am falling short of my "calling." Over the course of my marriage, when necessary, I have worked in two different fields, which helped support the family - one in which I have a degree, the other also an educated field - and yes, my "book-smarts" helped out there, but I don't consider myself "better" because of it. Overall, compared to my peers (which I don't think is a productive thing to do), I would consider myself average. I try to be a good wife, homemaker and mother (and eved Hashem), but sure, there are those who do it better than I.

I felt like the tone of many posts was to tear down valedictorians, as if people were jealous, and feel better by saying, "See? What did they gain?" Which made me unsure of the point of the thread. Or maybe it's just trying to prove something that I find obvious - of course success in school does not predict success in life. School measures a very limited type of skills. The question is more why we force all children to spend most of the first two decades of their lives trying to perfect those limited skills.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2008, 4:44 pm
amother wrote:
I felt like the tone of many posts was to tear down valedictorians, as if people were jealous, and feel better by saying, "See? What did they gain?" Which made me unsure of the point of the thread. Or maybe it's just trying to prove something that I find obvious - of course success in school does not predict success in life. School measures a very limited type of skills. The question is more why we force all children to spend most of the first two decades of their lives trying to perfect those limited skills.


Can anyone cite a Jewish source for the practice of "crowning" the best and second-best students in a high school class? I'm not advocating doing away with all forms of recognition, but I am literally disgusted by the practice and shocked that it's allowed to continue. My high school simply recognized everyone who achieved a particular GPA or above by a special ribbon worn during the graduation ceremony. My university, which ranks somewhere in U.S. News & World Report's top ten each year, refuses to rank its students, saying, "Every student who completes a degree at our institution has completed a rigorous program, etc."

Given that even the weakest student in a Jewish school assimilates for more knowledge and skill than a high school student in a secular school, can't we at least grant them the dignity of ending this ridiculous "state fair" exercise. Oh, wait -- since dress size is a big issue, maybe we could present an award to the girl with the smallest dress size, too!
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amother


 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2008, 7:42 pm
I was valedictorian, and my daughter was valedictorian recently. I'm proud to say bec. she had a very hard begining, and spent many weeks in icu after she was born. The Neonatologist said she will never be in a regular classroom. So a girl who pushed herself like that, deserved to be val. She was a double source of nachas for everyone. Furthermore, I give Chizuk to many people going through the same situations and B"H I have something to show them.
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Clarissa




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 31 2008, 8:33 pm
The kids who were the top students, especially the most well-rounded ones, wound up getting into some of the best colleges. Whether or not they're the best places for everyone (they're not), the top schools, such as the Ivies, did have some of the best professors and the best and the brightest students, which made for interesting learning experiences. Many of the people I know who went to top colleges wound up doing interesting things with their lives, and are pretty accomplished.

I have this coffee table book of my favorite photographer. One of my close friends was over and it turns out she studied photography with him at Princeton. Has that led to endless success and happiness in her life? No, but I think it's a great experience to have.

There are people from my high school who weren't stellar students, but have gone on to good careers and happy families. Others have become very successful, and yes, I did see some signs of this when they were in high school, earning great grades and being involved in other pursuits like the school paper, creative writing, science fairs, etc.

Some of the great students in school were just hard-workers who earned good grades, even great grades, but didn't impress us as more than kids who were organized and studied a lot. You could kind of tell the difference between them and the stars.

Me? Not a star. Spent all of my time in the library playing Hangman and joking around with my friends.
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amother


 

Post Mon, Sep 01 2008, 4:15 am
Fox wrote:
amother wrote:
I felt like the tone of many posts was to tear down valedictorians, as if people were jealous, and feel better by saying, "See? What did they gain?" Which made me unsure of the point of the thread. Or maybe it's just trying to prove something that I find obvious - of course success in school does not predict success in life. School measures a very limited type of skills. The question is more why we force all children to spend most of the first two decades of their lives trying to perfect those limited skills.


Can anyone cite a Jewish source for the practice of "crowning" the best and second-best students in a high school class? I'm not advocating doing away with all forms of recognition, but I am literally disgusted by the practice and shocked that it's allowed to continue. My high school simply recognized everyone who achieved a particular GPA or above by a special ribbon worn during the graduation ceremony. My university, which ranks somewhere in U.S. News & World Report's top ten each year, refuses to rank its students, saying, "Every student who completes a degree at our institution has completed a rigorous program, etc."

Given that even the weakest student in a Jewish school assimilates for more knowledge and skill than a high school student in a secular school, can't we at least grant them the dignity of ending this ridiculous "state fair" exercise. Oh, wait -- since dress size is a big issue, maybe we could present an award to the girl with the smallest dress size, too!


Great post, Fox. I agree 100%.
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