what is considered a good salary in London or other Uk city?

8mom

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 4:36 am

Even the schools that are state funded you are expected to make voluntary contributions although you can get reductions depending on your circumstances.

I think that in London, depending on how many children you have about £60,000 will ensure you can pay a mortgage, school fees etc. I don't know exactly about school fees but for us sem fees are about £7,000 a year and yeshiva £130 a week.

Manchester is probably slightly cheaper and mortgages are less. Gateshead is cheaper still but I heard that everyone has to pay the same school fees but I can't remember how much. And the price of meat in Gateshead is higher - don't know about other food.

shoeboxgirly

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 5:02 am

amother wrote:

We are talking about moving to London but my husband would need to find a job there first (he is a software developer.)

What would be considered a decent (livable) salary in London for this or any job?

If anyone has ideas about Manchester, Leeds or Newcastle I would also be grateful to hear it :-)

PM me about this. My company is still hiring dev roles, in fact this is an industry still with open spaces not just my company, and has roles in London and Leeds. I also did research into living costs in my last job, so send me a message if you're interested.

amother

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 5:02 am

Thanks for the replies so far!

We live in a different European country so my DH would be applying for jobs before we move. He can fly in for interviews etc. He said he has not even any idea which jobs are worth applying for because we don't know how much we would need to live there (e.g. if he finds a job that pays 15k per year there is no point in applying because it would not be enough to live on.)

Gatehead is not an option for us but we would consider similar communities to Leeds and Newcastle although we prefer London. I know London is way more expensive than the other cities I mentioned but I think the salaries would be lower in those places too.

I'm expecting our first right now so school won't be an issue for another few years. In any case, we will send to non-Jewish schools (state schools, not private.)

Jewish Mother2

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 5:10 am

there are also cheaper areas in London if you don't desperately want to be in the north London Jewish communities of Hendon, Golders Green or Edgware - there are very acceptable Jewish communities in Ilford and South London, depending on how frum you are and what kind of community you're looking for

If it's just the two of you then you need less of an income than if you had kids - education in London eats up a lot of money. Hopefully any job your DH starts will give him time to start and work up the ladder to a good salary before you have real children expenses.

amother

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 6:07 am

I was just came back to ask about communitites in other areas of London because I don't know much about that. I know about NW London - Golders Green, Finchley, Hendon, Edgeware and even up to Borhamwood and also about Stamford Hill which I don't like but what are the other communites? Wherabouts in South London?

My DH is older - he's 40 so I am sure that will make things more difficult job-wise.

What do you mean that education eats up a lot of money? We will send to regular state schools, not Jewish ones. Is that expensive? I thought it was free.

Also, I am pregnant right now and will bezrat Hashem have had the baby before we would potentially move so while we will save money on schooling in the beginning (?) I will not be able to work and contribute to our income for a while, especially if we have more children so DH would need to earnn enough to support us (he has higher earning potential than me although if he lost his job CvS I could theoretically go to work and him stay home.)

Raisin

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 7:33 am

state schools are free but honestly I know very few Jewish families, even not frum, who send to regular state schools. (unless they live out of London or Manchester) I beleve state schools vary in quality between different areas. Areas with good quality state schools are more expensive. Thats why the Jewish state schools are thriving, and parents are desperate to get thier kids in.

The Jewish kids I know who did not go to Jewish schools went to non Jewish private schools like Haberdashers, North London Collegiate, Manchester Grammar etc

3 little 1s

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 11:12 am

amother wrote:

I know what you mean and that most people do not share our views on this but I taught in UK state schools before moving here and we are certain that non-Jewish state education is the best option out there for our children.

UKmom, you mentioned a figure of 60k. Is that before or after tax?

I think you can live on much less (and how do you come to that amount not knowing his experience and qualifications etc?) if you are happy to live further out and you dont have school fees. But it really depends on your quality of life and what you consider 'normal'.

eg. (you dont have to answer these..) Would you be renting or buying? flat or house? holidays? etc

Also I am literally biting my lip not to say anything about you wanted to send to state schools. I have also taught in one or two, and whilst I had a good experience (despite them being in bad areas and having a really bad pass rate for all exams!) I cant understand the justification for a jewish child, when there are fantasitic multi million pound state funded jewish schools that have special need wings, study everything from contemporary dance and photography to politics. And have a really broad intake of kids.
But this thread isnt about that so please feel free to ignore the above....I just felt I needed to say something.

Back to the point, there are jewish communities in Bushey, Stanmore, Kenton, Wembley, Watford (all just outside London). Look online on the United Synagogue website for smaller communities around the UK

amother

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 12:16 pm

3 little 1s wrote:

(and how do you come to that amount not knowing his experience and qualifications etc?)

I don't understand what you're asking, or tho whom. UKmom mentioned a figure of 60k when I asked what a good salary would be. His experience and qualifications are irrelevant to the question. We first want to find out how much we would need to earn, then look to see what kind of salary a person with my Dh's experience and qualifications could earn. If it turns out that he is unlikely to earn more than 20k for example then we should consider that a move to London is not in our immediate future.

3 little 1s wrote:

eg. (you dont have to answer these..) Would you be renting or buying? flat or house? holidays? etc?

We would prefer to buy a house. As for holidays, we would visit DH's family one or two times per year (European flights, usually fairly cheap) so we'd have the cost of flights but not accomodation.

3 little 1s wrote:

Also I am literally biting my lip not to say anything about you wanted to send to state schools. I have also taught in one or two, and whilst I had a good experience (despite them being in bad areas and having a really bad pass rate for all exams!) I cant understand the justification for a jewish child, when there are fantasitic multi million pound state funded jewish schools that have special need wings, study everything from contemporary dance and photography to politics. And have a really broad intake of kids.
But this thread isnt about that so please feel free to ignore the above....I just felt I needed to say something.

We don't feel the need to justify our decision Smile

Also, Jewish school do not really have a broad intake of kids considering they only accept Jewish kids! I only mentioned our choice of school because it is relevant to my questions. I know how much private schools can cost and it would make quite a difference to our income requirements if we wanted to go down that route. Feel free to start a spin-off debate on the topic of Jewish vs non-Jewish schools though! Smile

Thanks for your help. Good idea to look at the US website.

3 little 1s

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 12:59 pm

A 'good' salary is subjective. That is why I asked how UKmum came to it.

The majority of JEWISH schools here are NOT private.The private ones are the smaller frummer ones. The voluntary contribution they ask for is to go towards the Jewish studies, and legally it has to be voluntary! If you can't pay for whatever reason you dont have to. I have on good authority that this is practised without predudice or bad feelings if you dont pay the contribution.

The broad intake includes families of different socio economic backgrounds, nationality and race. Some have a number of children with only one jewish parent. And if you are concerned that your children should be exposed to non jews, arnt you equally concerned they should be exposed to Jewish kids?

You totally dont need to justify it, it is your choice....just want to let you know whats out there.

nylon

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 1:10 pm

The thing is, in London the faith schools are often regarded as better than the regular state schools across the board, unless you have unusual special needs. I've lived in north London and watched my non-Jewish neighbors go crazy over schools admissions. One of my friends has a daughter the same age as mine--she did not get into any of the primaries she applied to! There are some really good schools, but the catchment areas are tiny, so the house prices to live near a good state primary were very high. When I first moved there we lived in Woodside Park. The nearest primary for our flat was so-so. Other side of the station, the primary was extremely good... and the prices were a lot higher. If you're looking to send to state schools you really need to do your homework on catchment areas, how hard it is to get places, etc. For example, our second flat, both the nearest secondaries were Catholic and we probably would have failed to get in to the nearest good non-religious school because of the distance test.

if you are looking to buy a house, it depends on how much you're coming in with to put down, then you can work out how much you need to pay the mortgage. When we left London 3 years ago, it was £300K minimum to buy a 3 bed semi in Finchley/Woodside Park/Hendon/Mill Hill (price varying depending on exact location of course), more in GG and less in Edgware. Quick look at property websites say it's not gotten better and may be worse.

Ilford is cheaper for sure. South London really doesn't have much Jewishly. No kosher shopping.

8mom

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 1:12 pm

We were also looking into salaries in London. I spoke to someone with 5 children, both parents are working. They have a house on the edge of Golders Green. They pay full school fees (aka voluntary contributions) and live very simply - don't go on big holidays, don't buy fancy food etc. They said that around this amount in their opinion would be ok to live on for someone with children. Of course this isn't written in stone. Many people earn less and are able to take advantage of tax credits etc.

I also know that if you want to pay less than the full fees some schools require that you fill out forms with questions about your mortgage, how many cars you have etc. If the OP doesn't have any children yet of course she will be able to manage on less than this but this wasn't immediately obvious from her post.

dmum

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 6:43 pm

I agree that 60K is what would be considered a 'good' salary in London. It is still not the kind of salary that will give you a lavish lifestyle with more than a couple of kids, but you will be able to pay a mortgage even in NW London, have household help, and if you are not paying school fees, have enough left over for some holidays.
I would suggest that for less than 40K it is not worth your while to consider moving to London, if you didn't want to have to struggle.
However, it may be okay if that were your salary up north.
This is all pre-tax.

Mrs Bissli

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 7:18 pm

Just to give you some more colours...

1. GBP60K pre-tax would amount to about GBP43.5k (acutally slightly less if you include National Insurance). Income tax rate is 20% up to GBP37.5k and 40% above that. 60k sounds like a quite decent salary, if you don't have to live in expensive areas, have private tuitions. You can probably get 1 used car. You can probably get a cleaning help once or twice a week, occasional babysitters, but not full time nanny (I think live-out full time nannies are 400/wk) or au pairs (in which case you'll need 3 bedrooms). Definitely doable esp if OP is planning to work as well.

2. Housing would be the biggest component of your expenses whether you buy or rent. Just to give you an idea, for 2bedroom flats, weekly rent can be anywhere from 300 upwards depending on where you live. You can find something less expensive say 250 in Borehamwood but in more central places like Hampstead expect to pay close to 400. For buying a house, 3bedroom (though usually one of the bedroom is TINY) starter home can be anywhere from 300k to more realistically 500k and up. You don't get good rates on mortgages unless you put down 35% down payment so that means you'll need anywhere from 105k to 170k cash BEFORE stamp duty, lawer fees, surveyers etc.

3. OP will still have a few years before she'll have to start worrying about proper schools. However, a) with budget cutbacks, many state primary schools are cutting back on nurseries (3yr olds). # of places are rather limited and most offer half day as opposed to Jewish schools (either voluntary aided or private) which offer full school days. b) As nylon said, faith schools and independent (ie private) schools scoop up "willling and able" kids. So what's left in state schools esp in London are underperforming to plainly problematic schools. I suggest OP checks OFSTEAD reports--these schools are often bottom 5-10% nationally, many kids from asylum refugee homes where english is not spoken, reports often clearly indicating low attainment levels. d) many state schools are still under Church of England. If the main purpose of choosing a school is to expose children to other cultural/ethnic background, there're plenty of choices via extracurricular activiites.

4. Each communities have distinct colours. This is strictly my personal opinion but I find GG/Hendon/Edgware rather insular and not that welcoming to total newcomers. You have lots of European (esp French speaking) young professionals in Hampstead/Swiss Cottage/Hendon but they tend to be much more expensive because they're more central. Borehamwood/Shenley/Radlett are among the fast growing because housing is still affordable, have good train link, and with jewish infrastructure. South of London doesn't really have much vibrant community life, many synagogues just barely managing to get a minyan mostly consisting of retirees. No basic amenities like mikvah or kosher shops.

nylon

Sun, Oct 30 2011, 8:47 pm

IF I were a young family coming to London I would probably look at Edgware or Borehamwood. Because they are cheaper there are more young couples. When we were in Woodside Park (which I otherwise liked in a lot of ways--it wasn't as in the thick of it as GG/Hendon, convenient to lots of things, green and quiet) there really weren't so many--it was expensive to buy there, so there were a lot more families 10+ years older than us. I have quite a few friends who have moved out to Borehamwood. Shenley/Radlett is more expensive than Borehamwood proper.

If you did want state schools that had some Jewish kids--which do exist--I would really suggest staying away from the frummest areas. You'll find more traditional type families elsewhere who still send to state schools, though if they have the money many prefer private (as mentioned, Habs, North London Collegiate, also City of London has lots of Jewish pupils). The more expensive areas will have more private school kids.