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Can I sleep train her? She NEEDS to sleep!
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lamplighter




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 2:42 pm
My baby is 9 weeks old and doesn't sleep. She is so so overtired, she screams and cries till I calm her but then doesn't sleep or sleeps for 15 minutes and then is up all over again. She is ok during the night and for the first 'nap' of the day but the rest of the day is a disaster, she cries and cries. I've tried the swing, the bouncer, music, a pacifier- nothing helps. If I rock her to sleep or feed her to sleep, it's not a long sleep and she wakes up still tired and screaming but cant fall back asleep.
I took her to the doctor- she is on her second type of medicine for reflux, I'm on a limited diet, and we do all the reflux things (she doesnt lay flat to sleep or lay down for 30 minutes after she eats etc), I see NO change.
I need to help her sleep and stay asleep. When she is well rested she is so alert and cute but as soon as she gets tired it's pretty downhill for the rest of the day Sad
I tried sleep training her twice, once about a month ago when I first noticed this issue and again last week. It doesn't work, she just screams and screams. The idea is that you put them down and then come in every certain amount of time to comfort them but it doesn't work. It's like she knows the trick and neither me or my DH can calm her. We've tried the baby whisperer's 2 methods, we've tried the sleep sense method and zero luck. She doesn't calm down at all. She needs her pacifier to sleep and it keeps falling out- we've tried with the pacifier and without it also no luck.
I am not complaining because I need or want sleep, I am SAHM right now and she is my only priority, it's ok if I'M tired, but the problem is she is always tired. She needs to learn to fall asleep and stay asleep.
Should I feberize her? I don't oppose his ideas, but if it's not going to work because she just gets traumatized and still doesn't sleep then there is no point.
To my credit, at least I have learned her tired signals and what the window is, now I need to know what to do to help her!
I know she's young for sleep training but she seems to need it.
Please advise.
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CYsmom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 2:58 pm
I know how frustrating it can be to try calming down an overtired cranky baby who will not nap! My DS's sleep habits sound a lot like your baby's. Other than a morning nap (which also isn't long) he wouldn't and still at 4 and a half months doesn't sleep for more than 30 min. He usually needs to nurse to fall asleep during the day. I too am a SAHM so most days, when I can, I sit on the couch nurse him and hold him for about an hour and a half so at least he will sleep a little to prevent him from getting really kvetchy and overtired. I keep him on me for that time and just go online or close my eyes myself and don't put him down because I know that if I do he wll just wake up shortly after. I know this probably isn't the advice you were looking for but it works for us most days. best of luck!
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anonymrs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 3:01 pm
Your baby is not too young to sleep train. I can tell you what I did with my dd but that does not mean it will work for you. I swaddled her, put her down and then she would cry. I put her pacifier back in, and leave. Sometimes she would cry again right away and sometimes she was quiet for a few minutes. I would continue to go to her, give her the pacifier, pat her, comfort her, but not pick her up.

The first night she was soooo upset. As a new mother, it was really hard for me but I knew it was best for her cuz she was so miserable from lack of sleep. If she woke up less than 2 hours later, I would repeat this. More than 2 hours, I would nurse her and repeat the process. Within one week, she was starting to do longer stretches until eventually she was sleeping about 5 hours at a time at night.

For naps, in the beginning, I just let her nurse to sleep but as soon as she was sleeping better at night, I did the same thing for naps. She never did learn to nap that well, though. She was (and still is) a cat-napper.
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lamplighter




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 3:14 pm
When you went into her and comfort her did she calm down?
My issues with the sleep training methods have been that she doesn't calm down when we come in, she just continues to yell, that's why I'm thinking about feberizing her.
I have let her nap on me but that isn't really a solution long term.
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anonymrs




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 3:48 pm
lamplighter wrote:
When you went into her and comfort her did she calm down?
My issues with the sleep training methods have been that she doesn't calm down when we come in, she just continues to yell, that's why I'm thinking about feberizing her.
I have let her nap on me but that isn't really a solution long term.


The first night, it took a really long time for her to calm down each time but at that age, they usually learn pretty fast. Ummm..... I wanted to add something else but I just got distracted from the ringing of the phone. When I remember, I'll come back to add it.
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MommytoB




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 4:09 pm
How long is she awake after her first nap before you put her down in her crib again? Babies that age really cannot be up for more than one hour at a time. TThat should basically be enough time to feed, change and maybe play for 10 minutes and than it is time to start nap routine aiming for that one hour mark of being in her crib so she is not overtired.
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lamplighter




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 4:17 pm
She isn't up too long before I start trying for a nap, I finally learned that Smile
Screaming for close to 2 hours in between, with 45 seconds of quiet here and there- that's normal? Then she has to eat again, it seems hopeless. She is not calming down when we go in to comfort her.
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chatouli




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 5:21 pm
lamplighter wrote:
She isn't up too long before I start trying for a nap, I finally learned that Smile
Screaming for close to 2 hours in between, with 45 seconds of quiet here and there- that's normal? Then she has to eat again, it seems hopeless. She is not calming down when we go in to comfort her.


If you want to "Ferberize," PLEASE read his book. What people call Ferberizing and what actually is Ferberizing tend to be totally different things. He has many methods for solving many divergent sleep problems and many of them are NOT put baby in a room, walk out, and come back in at increasing intervals. That is one cure for one problem, and I don't believe it's the recommendation for nap problems. I don't remember well enough to summarize for you unfortunately but I do remember thinking, wow, this is not what I thought it was from the way people talk about him and his methods.
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myself




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 6:01 pm
According to the Baby Whisperer if a baby is waking in the night then you should try to give them more to eat during the day. I've been topping up my baby with formula after every feed (since my milk supply is not the best) and he's been sleeping most of the night since.
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GetReal




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 8:08 pm
I agree, please read Dr. Ferber's book. He DOESN'T advocate just letting a kid cry.

Also - if you keep going in and she won't be comforted - she might want to held and you are telling her no, its time to sleep, but she knows you are there.

I did that with one of the my kids and it worked. Another time, I sat there, patted his back, shushed, and helped him fall asleep that way. Does she nap in a baby wrap? Bundle her up and take her for a walk?
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hop613




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 8:16 pm
If she sleeps well at night, and well for her fist nap, she must know how t ofall asleep if she needs to. I'm not sure ferberizing is the solution in this case. Your baby is very young, and her brain may just be getting overtired as the day goes on. I hate to say this, but I really think you jsut need to hang in there until she grows out of it.

That said, I would try a REALLY tight swaddle, I recommend the summer infant swaddle me, and a swing if you have one. I know you said you have tried the baby whisperer- does shh/pat work at akk for you? does she calm down at all?

I know how hard this is, especially when you are at home all day!
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 21 2011, 8:38 pm
Dr. Ferber (and even though I do not do controlled crying, I think the book has some very useful info) says not to sleep train before 4 months. 9 weeks is really too young.

Also, if baby is really in pain, sleep training is not going to work very well. You'll just be listening to her cry and cry. I know this is difficult (I am dealing with something similar) but only making her comfortable will help her sleep well. Have you tried the Rock and Play sleeper? Many reflux babies find the position easier for sleeping, as the milk does not come right back up, but it's more reclined than a swing or bouncer. My DS is also better at night... because he is not eating and therefore is not puking and in pain.
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hoboken




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 22 2011, 12:08 am
you say you're on a limited diet - does that include dairy? if so, try cutting out all dairy immediately. if she's sensitive to the dairy, it'll take about 3-4 days to see any improvement.
I had this with my little guy - nothing would calm him down. I kept bringing him to the doctor and he would ask "how many hours a day does he sleep?" and wouldn't believe me when I said he doesn't sleep at all. he suggested going dairy-free, and a week later my son was a different child. worth a shot if you haven't already tried!
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anonymrs




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 22 2011, 1:54 am
lamplighter, from the way you are describing your baby, it sounds to me like something is bothering her. Before you attempt sleep training, please have her checked out by your pediatrician. Sleep training a baby who is in pain will never work.
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the world's best mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 22 2011, 9:46 am
Some kids just aren't good sleepers. My sensory kids were horrible sleepers, and I used to have to wear ds the whole time he was napping, because he woke up every time I put him down. He did eventually learn to take short naps- about 20 minutes- in the stroller or crib. Then they gradually got longer until he was sleeping a solid 2 hours in his crib every day- but by then he was over a year old already.

I think babies who have trouble sleeping usually have something bothering them. In my son's case it was sensory issues and an intense need to be held and cuddled. For my dd, it was reflux and dairy intolerance. Life is very tough when dealing with babies who can't sleep, but sleep training a 9 week old will only backfire and make her want more comfort at sleep times. I think you should hold her as needed, sleep with her if that works, or read or relax... and after things settle down a bit, you should start putting her down for naps and see how she does. The time does come when they are ready to sleep in the crib.
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my80




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 22 2011, 10:55 am
get the book 'the baby whisperer' and get her on some sort of schedule.
it will solve alot of yr probs, and show you how to prevent her from getting overtired and into a state.

also, ferberizing is not letting her scream it out w/o comforting. make sure you have yr facts straight either by reading the book and speaking to someone who has before trying it.

good luck, it is very very frustrating and you have all my empathy!
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Jacoby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 25 2011, 1:55 pm
What happens if you try to put her in her crib with a pacifier 45mins-1 hour after her first waking. What would she do?
I found that the trick was putting them in BEFORE they are really tired. Then they manage to self soothe and fall asleep.
If she starts fussing, go in, give pacifier and go back out.
Wait two minutes at least. If she is till crying- go in and give pacifier.
Wait five minutes. Still crying- give paci and go out.
Wati ten minutes, 20 etc.
What happens if you would try this?
I don't think real sleep training is the issue now.
GOOD LUCK!
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PinkandYellow




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 27 2011, 10:33 pm
hoboken wrote:
you say you're on a limited diet - does that include dairy? if so, try cutting out all dairy immediately. if she's sensitive to the dairy, it'll take about 3-4 days to see any improvement.
I had this with my little guy - nothing would calm him down. I kept bringing him to the doctor and he would ask "how many hours a day does he sleep?" and wouldn't believe me when I said he doesn't sleep at all. he suggested going dairy-free, and a week later my son was a different child. worth a shot if you haven't already tried!


can a sensitivity to milk suddenly develop at this age or is it there from the beginning?

what is the interval of hours that baby should be up during the day without sleep? meaning, how much awake time should there be in between each nap?
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hoboken




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 27 2011, 11:22 pm
yes, a sensitivity to dairy can slowly develop. it's definitely worth a shot to give up ALL dairy for a week and see if you notice a difference. it will take a few days to get out of both your systems, so don't expect miracles overnight. if you don't notice a difference at all after a week, you can rule out a dairy sensitivity and look for further issues.
at 9 weeks, I'd imagine your baby should be up for about 1.5 hours before NEEDING a nap again. perhaps 2 hours in the afternoon, but my baby's 7 months old and still can't go more than 2-3.5 hours w/o rubbing his eyes and needing another nap.
your baby might also need some structure. regulating her feeding and sleeping schedules should help her mood. for babies, sleep begets sleep. if she doesnt get a good nap, it'll be harder for her to sleep at her next one, and so on and so forth. take a couple days to just stay home with her and do nothing else but try to get her on a schedule. do what works for both of you and will be sustainable. obviously, you can't be SO rigid about it at 9 weeks, but that's not too early to "train" her. give her feedings at the same times, put her down for naps at the same times, play with her at the same times. don't worry that doing so will force you to be rigid - once you get her used to some kind of schedule, you should be able to fudge it here and there when necessary.
also, you say there are reflux issues - try letting her nap in the car seat. it's not recommended for overnight sleeping and for long-term sleeping, but to help regulate her it's fine. and it will keep her upright so that her reflux is better. also, you can elevate one side of the crib by putting books underneath the legs on one side - but make sure that A)the crib still seems stable and B)that your daughter is not capable of rolling all the way down.
do you swaddle?
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miriammom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 08 2015, 11:40 am
Try calling batya the baby coach. Google her. If you need her number let me know. She advertises in the heimishe magazines. She can help with whatever you need. I heard a talk from her and that helped me get my baby on a good schedule.
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