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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers
WWYD, I have been advised to send my son to public school
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sunnshine770




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 12:23 am
My son is turning three and he is just learning to speak. He has been in speech therapy 6 months. He attends a Jewish preschool where his Morahs adore him. He is not B'H a problematic child....he just doesn't speak and has trouble understanding sometimes. His therapist reccomended public preschool where he was evaluated and was accepted. My husband is against the idea of this and I feel I just want whats best. He is still young and I feel he may benefit from professionals teaching him. WWYD? and now, I am feeling confused because I just read a thread about a woman who sent her daughter to public school and to make a long story short...this daughter is dating a [gentile]. I know my son is young but will public school hurt his precious neshama?
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tikva18




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 12:45 am
sunnshine770 wrote:
My son is turning three and he is just learning to speak. He has been in speech therapy 6 months. He attends a Jewish preschool where his Morahs adore him. He is not B'H a problematic child....he just doesn't speak and has trouble understanding sometimes. His therapist reccomended public preschool where he was evaluated and was accepted. My husband is against the idea of this and I feel I just want whats best. He is still young and I feel he may benefit from professionals teaching him. WWYD? and now, I am feeling confused because I just read a thread about a woman who sent her daughter to public school and to make a long story short...this daughter is dating a [gentile]. I know my son is young but will public school hurt his precious neshama?


I have fought so hard to keep my kids out of public school. I don't think it's the right place for yiddishe children. That said, I have two children with processing issues - one has an auditory processing problem and the other a language processing problem. School was exceptionally difficult for both of them when they were little. My lang proc. problem child did not chop what was going on in class and was continually stressed out with separation anxiety, etc. We ended up pulling him out of that school after kindergarten/pre1A (don't know what you call a 5yr old class) and putting him in a frum school that offered therapy in school.

I think I would try very hard to keep my child in a Jewish setting and would maybe ask if having an aide in the room to facilitate understanding would suffice. I'd then ensure he was getting as much speech therapy as I could manage.

Feel free to pm me - if I have any ideas that would be helpful, I would be happy to do so.
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 12:45 am
Are there no other options? There are so many frum specal ed programs. If yyou live in an areawhere such programs aren't available, can you send him to p.s. par of the time just for therapy andnhve him continue in preschool part of the time? If you really have no other choice remember that this is the crucial age to work on these critical skills nd he'll catch up on his Judaic studies when he's in elementary iyh.
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Merrymom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 12:56 am
Well what does school mean to you? A means to get to Harvard or a place that is a partner to you in raising a mentsch (who hopefully will learn enough to have a career as well). I know of girls who graduated hs in two years, skipped seminary and went straight to college. Yay for the geniuses. How about what kind of Jewish mothers will they be with three years of a Jewish education missing?
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amother


 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 12:58 am
sunnshine770 wrote:
My son is turning three and he is just learning to speak. He has been in speech therapy 6 months. He attends a Jewish preschool where his Morahs adore him. He is not B'H a problematic child....he just doesn't speak and has trouble understanding sometimes. His therapist reccomended public preschool where he was evaluated and was accepted. My husband is against the idea of this and I feel I just want whats best. He is still young and I feel he may benefit from professionals teaching him. WWYD? and now, I am feeling confused because I just read a thread about a woman who sent her daughter to public school and to make a long story short...this daughter is dating a [gentile]. I know my son is young but will public school hurt his precious neshama?


My friend's daughter went to day school from pre-school through high school, and not only dated a non-Jew, she's living with him and their baby. Not married. Now you've heard another apocryphal story that is meaningless.

Public school is not going to hurt your son's neshama. He's not going to accept JC as his personal lord and savior at age 4 if he builds a couple of brick towers with a non-Jew, or even if he winds up singing Frosty the Snowman.

What will destroy his precious neshama is remaining in a school that doesn't meet his needs. And I speak as a mother of a child whose precious neshama was destroyed by poorly trained teachers in a Jewish school who thought that learning difference meant stupid, and who conveyed that to my child quite effectively. Nothing years of therapy and affirmation haven't, oh who am I kidding. 10 years later, and my child is still impacted.

Now, the fact is, I don't know if the public school meets his needs, or if the Jewish school. will.

Are we talking about a physical issue, like apraxia of speech? Or is this a speech delay? If the latter, are there co-existing learning differences that need to be addressed.

While the teachers may be telling you that your child is delightful, what are they doing with him. Are they trained, and willing to be trained, to work with a child with serious delays?

What is your child's prognosis? If he's not expected to catch up within a year, does this school have the facilities and abilities to help him>

And what about the other kids in the school?

In sum, how is the school going to deal with the differences, today, tomorrow, next week, and next year.

Same questions for the public school.

My advice is do your best to remediate your child's issues now, whether or not that means public schooll. The, hopefully, he will be able to matriculate into the Jewish school by kindergarten or first grade.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 12:59 am
Keep him out of there at all costs. I teach the older public school kids and it is no place for a Jewish child. And it only gets worse as the years go by.
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 2:35 am
sunnshine770 wrote:
My son is turning three and he is just learning to speak. He has been in speech therapy 6 months. He attends a Jewish preschool where his Morahs adore him. He is not B'H a problematic child....he just doesn't speak and has trouble understanding sometimes. His therapist reccomended public preschool where he was evaluated and was accepted. My husband is against the idea of this and I feel I just want whats best. He is still young and I feel he may benefit from professionals teaching him. WWYD? and now, I am feeling confused because I just read a thread about a woman who sent her daughter to public school and to make a long story short...this daughter is dating a [gentile]. I know my son is young but will public school hurt his precious neshama?


A lot of FFBs end up not being frum, regardless of where they went to school. A lot of children do fine in public schools.

HOWEVER, I'm not sure I understand why there are no day schools that can teach him, or why you can't school him at home for a few years and why you can't continue to work with him. What was the diagnosis, and why this school as being better for him?
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 3:11 am
amother wrote:
sunnshine770 wrote:
My son is turning three and he is just learning to speak. He has been in speech therapy 6 months. He attends a Jewish preschool where his Morahs adore him. He is not B'H a problematic child....he just doesn't speak and has trouble understanding sometimes. His therapist reccomended public preschool where he was evaluated and was accepted. My husband is against the idea of this and I feel I just want whats best. He is still young and I feel he may benefit from professionals teaching him. WWYD? and now, I am feeling confused because I just read a thread about a woman who sent her daughter to public school and to make a long story short...this daughter is dating a [gentile]. I know my son is young but will public school hurt his precious neshama?


My friend's daughter went to day school from pre-school through high school, and not only dated a non-Jew, she's living with him and their baby. Not married. Now you've heard another apocryphal story that is meaningless.

Public school is not going to hurt your son's neshama. He's not going to accept JC as his personal lord and savior at age 4 if he builds a couple of brick towers with a non-Jew, or even if he winds up singing Frosty the Snowman.

What will destroy his precious neshama is remaining in a school that doesn't meet his needs. And I speak as a mother of a child whose precious neshama was destroyed by poorly trained teachers in a Jewish school who thought that learning difference meant stupid, and who conveyed that to my child quite effectively. Nothing years of therapy and affirmation haven't, oh who am I kidding. 10 years later, and my child is still impacted.

Now, the fact is, I don't know if the public school meets his needs, or if the Jewish school. will.

Are we talking about a physical issue, like apraxia of speech? Or is this a speech delay? If the latter, are there co-existing learning differences that need to be addressed.

While the teachers may be telling you that your child is delightful, what are they doing with him. Are they trained, and willing to be trained, to work with a child with serious delays?

What is your child's prognosis? If he's not expected to catch up within a year, does this school have the facilities and abilities to help him>

And what about the other kids in the school?

In sum, how is the school going to deal with the differences, today, tomorrow, next week, and next year.

Same questions for the public school.

My advice is do your best to remediate your child's issues now, whether or not that means public schooll. The, hopefully, he will be able to matriculate into the Jewish school by kindergarten or first grade.


This. All of this. Investigate all your options but your priority must be providing the environment most conducive to your child's successful healthy development or he will not be functional no matter where he goes to school.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 4:08 am
HindaRochel, do you really know "a lot" of Jewish children who came out of public school even minimally frum in this generation?

I know two, but both were only in public school for a few years and did the rest of their education in frum schools.

I do think, based on what I've seen, that it's mostly an issue for older kids/teens, not little kids. A 5-year-old won't be too different from the other kids even if they're shomer mitzvot, and anyway what their peers are doing is much much less important at that age.

So basically, don't worry that sending your preschooler to public school now is going to lead to them dropping mitzvot two decades down the line, but (IMHO) do get them into a frum environment by about halfway through elementary if at all possible. Because after that it's just not fair to the kid to be asked to be so different. (Which is the real problem - it's not that being around non-Jews hurts the neshama or anything as dramatic as that, it's that it's difficult socially for the average child.)

(As for whether public school will address his needs better, I have no idea, the above is my advice assuming it would.)
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anon for this




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 7:07 am
When my daughter turned 3 and aged out of early intervention, she spoke only a few words (though I believed she understood everything we said) and needed OT and PT as well. I was advised to send her to public preschool, and after much research, realized that the kind of therapy she needed was not available anywhere else in my area. She's 5 now and is doing very well b"h. She speaks in full sentences, can read a little, is learning to add and write, and has met most of her OT and PT goals. I'm hoping to mainstream her next year in her sisters' BY school.

I believe that public school was the best choice for her. She would not have received the services she needed at any Jewish schools in the area, and I could not have provided these services myself. I don't believe she would've progressed enough to be mainstreamed this soon had I not sent her there. Many of my friends also chose to send very young special needs children to public or private non-religious preschools.

Maybe you could ask the public school what services they are offering in his IEP and compare that to the services his Jewish preschool, or another Jewish preschool in the area, would be capable of offering, and see how you could supplement. Also, as amother above posted, it's essential to know what his diagnosis is.

Merrymom, for me this wasn't about wanting to send my daughter to Harvard or to help her skip a grade. It was about wanting her to become a child who could communicate with other people and do the same things other kids her age can do. I think that was essential for her development, and will help her become a Jewish woman and mother iy"h.

sunshine, you can pm me if you want.
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 7:19 am
ora_43 wrote:
HindaRochel, do you really know "a lot" of Jewish children who came out of public school even minimally frum in this generation?


From my generation yes, but that's not what I said. I know many ffb kids who have come from a variety of different experiences in terms of school, who are no longer frum.

I don't think schooling makes NO difference, but rather I think what is important is the schooling is the right schooling for the child.

I don't think that sending a child to public school is the equivalent of feeding them a ham sandwich. On the other hand I also don't know that OPs child MUST go to public school in order to learn to speak correctly and fluently, which is, I expect, OPs goal.
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noosheen




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 7:39 am
It depends where u live & your options. I sent my then 3 year old for two years to public school to teach him the skills to hopefully be able to mainstream him later on. He is 7 now & in a mainstream frum school, with an aid, and is getting by. The decision we made back then was the best thing for him. What he gained from the special school with therapies inclluded were huge & u can never get those yrs back. Again, I don't live in a place where frum schools offer this type of very sprecial education. If I did I wouldn't have sent him. Its very hard, but we really need to do what's best for our children at the time & think of what he needs in his life NOW - thinking about thew girl marrying a [gentile] is not something that u need to focus on when your child needs the help right now
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 7:58 am
Your son is 3.

Sending him to a public school (provided its the best option for him overall) will allow him to get up to level with his peers and then mainstream.

I know plenty of kids who have/are doing this.

Both my sisters did part day in public school. Both are Torah observant and married frum people.

The goal is to take care of delays early so he can hopefully be mainstreamed as soon as possible. The longer you wait, the more likely it is that Yeshivas will NOT be able to deal with his problems and he may end up in public school full time.
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morah




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 8:09 am
Public school can destroy a neshama, but so can consistently failing at a frum school. PreK/K at a public school should not be much of a problem- the horror stories you hear are generally about kids who stay through tween or teen years. If you do send him, you'll want to get him ready to go back to a frum school by 1st grade. Is public school really your only option? You mention that the frum teachers are not professionals- what about a more modern school? The very MO schools tend to have university-trained teachers with masters degrees. They may be able to meet your son's needs, and if you decide later to switch him to a more RW school, he won't be behind in limudei kodesh.
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emhabanim




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 8:11 am
As a therapist specializing in preschool intervention, I can honestly tell you I have worked with many parents in your situation. I do not envy you at all. The parents all struggled with this. If you have a frum preschool program which caters to special needs and can offer all interventions - go for it. Fundraise for the high tution. Send out letters to everyone you know asking for help to offer this child the chinuch he needs to succeed. I have gotten many of these letters from my friends and neighbors.
On the flip side, if there is not a frum environment that can meet your son's needs, by placing him in a regular ed frum classroom where his needs will not be met, you are not doing him a service. His delays will only increase. His frustration will increase. His self esteem will decrease. The teachers will not be able to work with him to develop the skills he needs. That will stagnate.
In public schools, not only do they offer one on one therapy, they also have special ed teachers and classroom aides, and therapists doing inclusion, and focus in on getting a child the skills he needs. In regular ed environments those skills are assumed to have come in naturally and are not focused on at all.They are simply the foundational skills that are assumed to be mastered so that the child can learn further skills in the regular ed room. If frum teachers are telling you there is a problem they can not address - LISTEN TO THEM!! They know you do not want to send to public school, but they are telling you your sweet child isn't doing well.
I have also seen kids who did preschool public school enter the yeshiva system in early elementary school and with support, they mainstream in and succeed. Be realistic... not all kids can do this. If your son will not be able to mainstream, and yeshiva is very important to you, and there is no special needs yeshiva where you live, you might want to consider relocating to a neighborhood where there is such a yeshiva. I have also worked with parents who have done that - often with much hardship.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 8:31 am
Different amother who has a child (DS) who was advised to attend public preschool. He has ASD. We also really struggled with the decision, but the Jewish preschool principal advised us to put him in public school to get the help that he needed while he was so little, and then see if we could bring him back. This is his 3rd year in the town's public preschool program. They have done miracles with him, and provided all kinds of services that he would not have gotten if he stayed in his Jewish preschool. The public school has been very respectful about everything, making sure that he only eats kosher food, and they have picture cards with the copies of all the brachos for him to say before he eats. They are constantly helping him put his kipa back on his head, and make sure he doesn't put his tzitzis in his mouth. They ask him about all the Jewish holidays, and encourage him to share. They didn't do any class projects for the non-Jewish holidays, in part out of respect for us. We got him a siddur called "Shema Koleinu" that has recordings of all the tefillos, and he davens with it every morning before school. After school and in the summer, I have taught him alef-bet. He goes to Jewish camp for part of the summer, and we encourage playdates with Jewish friends. He is very aware of his identity. It isn't all perfect. He does get frustrated sometimes with the ways that his life is different from that of his non-Jewish classmates, but kids can get frustrated like that anywhere over all kinds of different things.

In two months, we will be having a meeting to see if he is ready to come back into a Jewish setting, and I'm pretty optimistic. I don't think he would be where he is today if we hadn't made the decision to send him to the public school, and I am so grateful to the Jewish school for encouraging it, knowing that it would be in his best long-term interests.

I'd say talk to the administration of the Jewish preschools and see what they advise and what kinds of services they can offer. Then, hear what the public school has to offer, and what they will do to respect you. That will give you more info for your decision.
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veganesther




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 8:52 am
Dear OP,
Your situation is multi-dimensional.
1. would the pre-k public school no cost option best suit your lo's learning issue
2. your DH input and support in your LO's educational choices.
IMO it is unwise and counterproductive to disagree w/ your DH over this problem. Your DH's relationship w/ his son is as important as the educational choices.
get your DH onboard. have him meet w/ the therapists and learning specialist. Go together to pre-view the public school class your LO would be in for next year.
makes this decision together.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 8:59 am
Please find out more about the different schools and what accommodations or services they will provide for your son. Everyone here is making PS out to be a wonderful option. I'm sure it is, in many places. Where I live, though, I will recommend that parents do anything they can to keep their kids OUT of PS. And I'm talking about non Jewish kids, btw. (I am a therapist myself).

The teachers in the special programs in the PS where I live are not up to par, and the therapy is minimal and can be lousy. So I refer parents to different private schools, depending on the needs, where I feel they will be better served.

Just another thing to consider.
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amother


 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 9:01 am
Previous amother here.

I just saw that you live in FL. So do I. DON'T DO PUBLIC SCHOOL. If you would like me to pm you, I will.
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yaeli83




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 23 2011, 9:12 am
Hi Op. do you have an option to send him to half a day at both the Jewish and public school? I know at least three kids who do that here, and while their days are long, it seems to be a good option for them. Also, where I live they have a school bus pick them up from one school and bring them to the next. this is part of the public school program and does not cost extra.
The parents of these children plan on sending them to only the Jewish school once they are older and have gained skills needed at the public school.
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