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Vaad Hatznius of Flatbush
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happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 18 2012, 8:42 pm
kinda funny..:



It has come to the attention of the Flatbush Vaad Ha Tznius that the
Rockland Kosher Supermarket located in Monsey, NY has instituted a
policy of covering up the picture of the girl on bottles of Downy
fabric softener before putting these containers on their shelves. See
http://tinyurl.com/8xg7joq It is not known what this supermarket does
with products manufactured by Aunt Jemima and Betty Crocker.

Nonetheless, the Flatbush Vaad Ha Tznius is not about to be outdone
by Monsey. Therefore it has issued the following guidelines regarding
laundry.

It has come to our attention that many families, including those who
pride themselves on following all aspects of halacha, are regularly
not conforming to proper Tznius guidelines. Unbelievably, many, many
families are washing men's and women's clothing together at the same
time in the same washing machine. This is an unprecedented breach of
Tznius.!!! How could anyone think that one is allowed to wash men's
and women's undergarments at the same time in the same washing
load?!!! What has our nation come to when people have fallen to such
a low level? For shame!!! This practice must stop!!!!

Given this we are issuing the following guidelines regarding the doing
of laundry.

!. Ideally each observant home should have two washing machines and
two dryers - one washing machine and one dryer should be used
exclusively for men's clothing and the other washing machine and dryer
should be used exclusively for women's clothing.

2. In the event that a family cannot afford to have two washing
machines and two dryers, the following rules should be adhered to.

a. Under no circumstances should men's cloths be washed in
the same machine as women's clothing at the same time. They should,
of course, also be dried separately.

b. After doing a load of men's clothing, one should run the
washing machine through a complete cycle without any cloths in it
using hot water. Then one may wash women's clothing in this machine.
The same procedure should, of course, be followed after washing a load
of women's clothing, namely, run a complete cycle using hot water
without any cloths in the machine. Then one may wash men's clothing in
the machine.

c. After drying a load of men's clothing the dryer should be
allowed to cool off completely. After this, one may use the dryer for
drying women's cloths. The same applies after drying a load of women's
clothing before using the dryer for men's clothing. It is not enough
to let the dryer cool below Yad So Ledas Bo. The dryer must be
completely cooled off.

Our forefathers lived in a land that was between two rivers - the
Tigris and the Euphrates. The reason is obvious to anyone who thinks
into it a bit. One river was used to wash women's clothing and the
other to wash men's clothing. Surely we can continue this tradition by
observing the rules stated above.

We are confident that everyone who takes Yahadus seriously will abide
by the guidelines stated above.

With Torah greetings,

Names withheld by request due to concern that our wives will stop
doing our laundry.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 18 2012, 10:24 pm
aaagh... the downy cover up looks to be real!
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life'sgreat




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:12 am
marina wrote:
aaagh... the downy cover up looks to be real!

Yes Marina, it is. Puke:. I wanted to get a photo of this last time I shopped there, but didn't have my camera.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:20 am
I may be driving to monsey today (thursday), and was wondering what grocery stores are best to shop in? Obviously not this one.
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:20 am
life'sgreat wrote:
marina wrote:
aaagh... the downy cover up looks to be real!

Yes Marina, it is. Puke:. I wanted to get a photo of this last time I shopped there, but didn't have my camera.


Puke because you disagree with them and are disgusted? Or because people are making fun of it?
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Nikki




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:38 am
It's not only the Downy, the cereal boxes are also covered up like the Cheerios where you have a mother and she is not even untznius. In the summer their swimming tubes with pictures of little girls were covered up. Anything with a picture of a girl on it is covered up even if she is tznius.
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life'sgreat




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:45 am
groisamomma wrote:
life'sgreat wrote:
marina wrote:
aaagh... the downy cover up looks to be real!

Yes Marina, it is. Puke:. I wanted to get a photo of this last time I shopped there, but didn't have my camera.


Puke because you disagree with them and are disgusted? Or because people are making fun of it?

What do you think? LOL
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kb




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 3:15 am
I think the article is great, and I love the laundry instructions! Especially here in Israel - the loads take over an hour each, so I guess Yerushalayim Ir Hakodesh gets an extra level of stringency. But can I hang the clothes to dry on two different bars of my drying rack, or do I need to get another rack for dh and ds?

However, about everyone being so upset about the stickers - it doesn't bother me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - if someone doesn't like to look at women, why does it bother you? Yes, in this day and age, it's very hard to get good quality stuff without having pictures of women on the packaging. So they cover the picture.

So if you NEED a picture of another gorgeous woman on your dh's breakfast cereal, go to ShopRite. I don't see a reason to get so offended and upset. It's someone's shita and I don't see why you can't accept it, even if you don't agree with it.
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justcallmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 11:40 am
People, if this is true (that all pics of women and girls whether they are tznius or not are covered or removed) then it's really scary. This is what leads to Taliban kind of behaviour. How far of a leap do you think it is from this to making women cover their faces and/or their whole bodies? This is really scary.
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eatingbagels




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 11:43 am
kb wrote:
I think the article is great, and I love the laundry instructions! Especially here in Israel - the loads take over an hour each, so I guess Yerushalayim Ir Hakodesh gets an extra level of stringency. But can I hang the clothes to dry on two different bars of my drying rack, or do I need to get another rack for dh and ds?

However, about everyone being so upset about the stickers - it doesn't bother me. Everyone is entitled to their opinions - if someone doesn't like to look at women, why does it bother you? Yes, in this day and age, it's very hard to get good quality stuff without having pictures of women on the packaging. So they cover the picture.

So if you NEED a picture of another gorgeous woman on your dh's breakfast cereal, go to ShopRite. I don't see a reason to get so offended and upset. It's someone's shita and I don't see why you can't accept it, even if you don't agree with it.

I am very respectful of other people's lifestyles.
I am, however, disturbed, that any community feels the need to put stickers over pictures of little girls. Whether or not this is their intention, the message they send is that there is something zexual about a little girl in a sleeveless dress. And that's what is disturbing.
Perhaps they don't care about the message they send. They're entitled to do what they do and I'm entitled to be disturbed and never let any little girl I know go near a man who thinks there is something zexy about about a 5 year old girl.
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:07 pm
phew...
I see they separated the pictures of milk and meat by the ad about juicing; however, they didn't separate between the comments about meat and fish. Obviously the place isn't really kosher.

And why do I want to go in there and tear the stickers off? Or show up in a long skirt/shirt, only to take off the long shirt in the store and expose my elbows?
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kb




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:08 pm
Is that the message you pick up? I don't. I get the message that the store is managed by someone who doesn't want to be machshil his customers in seeing an erva, and rather than sort through each picture and rationalize which pictures are okay and which pictures aren't, he instructs his (I assume non-Jewish, who don't understand the concept at all anyway) to cover up any picture of a female that enters his store.

Obviously he doesn't think things about your 5 year old. He lets you, and your daughter in to the store to shop. I would like to say that this is because you are dressing properly and he doesn't consider every female s-xual.

And please don't tell me that he's a two faced liar who is making a show - he covers up all female pictures but has no problem taking money from females at the same time. I am aware that these type of people come in two flavors - sincere and hypocritical. I am just being dan loaf zchus that his store owner is sincere. Why assume bad about a fellow Jew?
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eatingbagels




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 12:28 pm
kb wrote:
Is that the message you pick up? I don't. I get the message that the store is managed by someone who doesn't want to be machshil his customers in seeing an erva, and rather than sort through each picture and rationalize which pictures are okay and which pictures aren't, he instructs his (I assume non-Jewish, who don't understand the concept at all anyway) to cover up any picture of a female that enters his store.

Obviously he doesn't think things about your 5 year old. He lets you, and your daughter in to the store to shop. I would like to say that this is because you are dressing properly and he doesn't consider every female s-xual.

And please don't tell me that he's a two faced liar who is making a show - he covers up all female pictures but has no problem taking money from females at the same time. I am aware that these type of people come in two flavors - sincere and hypocritical. I am just being dan loaf zchus that his store owner is sincere. Why assume bad about a fellow Jew?

So non-Jewish workers don't understand the concept of the difference between a young girl and a grown woman? I beg to differ. It would be disingenuous to say that there isn't an issue of completely eliminating little girls from the public sphere in certain communities.
And it's very nice that he lets women and young girls into the store to shop; how progressive. Will he still allow my daughter in if she's wearing a sleeveless dress? Maybe now. If this trend continues, what about in ten years? You are aware that there are stores where there is separate shopping for men and women, right?
I don't understand your comment about the two-faced liar. I don't know or care who the store owner is. I don't even know if he cares about the little girl on the downy bottle. In my head, he's catering to shoppers- shoppers who have perhaps complained about little girls exposed on downy bottles. My only issue with the store owner is that he has now contributed to this trend of blocking women out from society.
Monsey- home to the stickered up downy bottles and, in a completely unrelated topic, home to the Burka- clad women.
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life'sgreat




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 1:48 pm
kb wrote:
Is that the message you pick up? I don't. I get the message that the store is managed by someone who doesn't want to be machshil his customers in seeing an erva, and rather than sort through each picture and rationalize which pictures are okay and which pictures aren't, he instructs his (I assume non-Jewish, who don't understand the concept at all anyway) to cover up any picture of a female that enters his store.

Obviously he doesn't think things about your 5 year old. He lets you, and your daughter in to the store to shop. I would like to say that this is because you are dressing properly and he doesn't consider every female s-xual.

And please don't tell me that he's a two faced liar who is making a show - he covers up all female pictures but has no problem taking money from females at the same time. I am aware that these type of people come in two flavors - sincere and hypocritical. I am just being dan loaf zchus that his store owner is sincere. Why assume bad about a fellow Jew?

Not all photos of women are covered up. This is the first time I've seen it.
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Merrymom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 4:49 pm
kb wrote:
Is that the message you pick up? I don't. I get the message that the store is managed by someone who doesn't want to be machshil his customers in seeing an erva, and rather than sort through each picture and rationalize which pictures are okay and which pictures aren't, he instructs his (I assume non-Jewish, who don't understand the concept at all anyway) to cover up any picture of a female that enters his store.

Obviously he doesn't think things about your 5 year old. He lets you, and your daughter in to the store to shop. I would like to say that this is because you are dressing properly and he doesn't consider every female s-xual.

And please don't tell me that he's a two faced liar who is making a show - he covers up all female pictures but has no problem taking money from females at the same time. I am aware that these type of people come in two flavors - sincere and hypocritical. I am just being dan loaf zchus that his store owner is sincere. Why assume bad about a fellow Jew?


Do you really want to live in such a crazy world? I understand if bags of chips had Las Vegas call girls on it, I wouldn't want to see those but every woman and girl is treif now?
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kb




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 5:51 pm
Gosh - I'm being attacked about something I don't even believe in. All I said - or meant to say - is that people are entitled to their own hashkafos. I tried to give a positive spin on it, but it seems I wasn't successful.

Basically, my point is that it doesn't hurt to try to be accepting of other people's mentalities. I think the reason imamothers find it offensive is because you feel it personally as women. But don't take it that way. These are people who don't want to be tempted and are going above and beyond to prevent any thoughts.... Does it make logical sense? Not to me. But live and let live. And don't get upset about a few white stickers on top of a downy bottle. It's so not worth it.

Now back to the separate washing machines and dryers. It's a much safer territory!
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life'sgreat




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 7:50 pm
kb wrote:
Gosh - I'm being attacked about something I don't even believe in. All I said - or meant to say - is that people are entitled to their own hashkafos. I tried to give a positive spin on it, but it seems I wasn't successful.

Basically, my point is that it doesn't hurt to try to be accepting of other people's mentalities. I think the reason imamothers find it offensive is because you feel it personally as women. But don't take it that way. These are people who don't want to be tempted and are going above and beyond to prevent any thoughts.... Does it make logical sense? Not to me. But live and let live. And don't get upset about a few white stickers on top of a downy bottle. It's so not worth it.

Now back to the separate washing machines and dryers. It's a much safer territory!

Nope. Doesn't work. Sorry. There are certain things that do not need and don't have positive spins. Taking little cute girls and turning them into females-that-shall-not-be-seen is sick, twisted and wrong hashkafically. I remember being 4-5 years old and sitting on one of THE biggest Gedolim's lap and singing a chanuka song with my sister a year my junior. My gosh if a gadol would try this today. There's something so twisted hashkafically with this.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 10:11 pm
Okay, so my son convinced me to go into rockland kosher today. And if we were there I was gonna take a look at those downy bottles. Sure enough, there were white stickers on SOME of the bottles. Others were not covered. I did notice that on the ones that were covered the girls were wearing red dresses. The girls with blue dresses (same style) werent covered. And not all the red ones were covered either. I also saw a lot of other items that they could have covered if they desired to. (Like the one box with a lady in a sleeveless black dress-cereal box I think).

So I am not sure what they are/were trying to do by covering the downy bottles.

I did like their prices and selection of cheeses.
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life'sgreat




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 11:22 pm
shanie5 wrote:
Okay, so my son convinced me to go into rockland kosher today. And if we were there I was gonna take a look at those downy bottles. Sure enough, there were white stickers on SOME of the bottles. Others were not covered. I did notice that on the ones that were covered the girls were wearing red dresses. The girls with blue dresses (same style) werent covered. And not all the red ones were covered either. I also saw a lot of other items that they could have covered if they desired to. (Like the one box with a lady in a sleeveless black dress-cereal box I think).

So I am not sure what they are/were trying to do by covering the downy bottles.

I did like their prices and selection of cheeses.

These downy bottles are on sale/clearance, so I guess they want to make it kosher enough for everyone? Not sure.
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Dandelion1




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 19 2012, 11:42 pm
Is it possible that they cover them because they don't want little girls to see it and think its ok to dress sleeveless? Ie, to block out the secular influence?
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