Spinoff- Satmar responses please to Deborah Feldman

jaysmom

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 2:24 pm

Satmar woman,

What are your feelings on this article? Is there really such an all or nothing attitude in Satmar? If a satmar girl wanted to drop many of the chumrahs would her family put her in cherem? Would her community? Obviously everyone's response may be a little different, but I am asking nonetheless. I just find it so sad that she felt she had to 'drop everything to gain everything' (as she says in video on her site). Is there such an attitude?

lkwdmommy

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 2:39 pm

And what about other communities - for example Yeshivish Litvish. If one of their kids feels stifled and wants to change his minhagim, code of dress, level of kashrus or whatever, would he feel accepted.

And at a different end of the spectrum, if someone from a verh left wing, MO family becomes ultra frummy or chassidish, how accepted will he feel in his former community?

This, IMO, was a very leading question. What kind of answer were you expecting?

Maya

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 2:58 pm

Are you talking about the latest NYPost article?

I'm someone who grew up with her, in her community and spent some time with her teaching together in the same school after graduation. I can say with certainty - and most of the Satmar graduates on this site will back me up on this - that much of what she writes in the book is very exaggerated at the best, and outright lies at the worst. I'm very surprised that a publishing house of that stature would not look into the veracity of a memoir. Anyone with a tiny brain can tell you that a big part of the book is simply untrue and there only for the shock value.

She had to drop everything to gain everything? What did she gain? Obviously not a life. If she would have a life that would be as free and happy as she claims to be, she'd just move on instead of constantly showing up all over to bash the community.

I will say this much: I admire women who find their own way in life no matter how difficult it is for them, even if it means leaving Yiddishkeit. But I am simply disgusted by her need to keep on viciously attacking and spreading lies about the community who raised her in what they felt was the best way they could.

Last edited by Maya on Tue, Feb 07 2012, 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

Barbara

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 3:07 pm

Maya wrote:

Are you talking about the latest NYPost article?

I'm someone who grew up with her, in her community and spent some time with her teaching together in the same school after graduation. I can say with certainty - and most of the Satmar graduates on this site will back me up on this - that some of the mental issues her father had must have passed on to her genetically.

Much of what she writes in the book is very exaggerated at the best, and outright lies at the worst. I'm very surprised that a publishing house of that stature would not look into the veracity of a memoir. Anyone with a tiny brain can tell you that a big part of the book is simply untrue and there only for the shock value.

She had to drop everything to gain everything? What did she gain? Obviously not a life. If she would have a life that would be as free and happy as she claims to be, she'd just move on instead of constantly showing up all over to bash the community.

I will say this much: I admire women who find their own way in life no matter how difficult it is for them, even if it means leaving Yiddishkeit. But I am simply disgusted by her need to keep on viciously attacking and spreading lies about the community who raised her in what they felt was the best way they could.

As an attorney who works with publishers on a regular basis, I would venture a guess that this book was well-vetted, and that any potentially defamatory comments in the book were well-vetted.

Your move. Do you have any basis for your potentially defamatory statement that the author of the book has mental issues?

Have you read the book?

And if YOU are as happy as YOU claim to be, why don't YOU simply move on instead of bashing her over and over again, as happens every time this woman's name comes up on this forum?

OutATowner

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 3:09 pm

I'm not Satmar- but I can tell you on a positive note- I have seen kids who needed to find "their own way" with Yiddishkeit, their parents worked with them and helped them find what works for that kid without labeling him. I'm referring to kids from very Yeshivish homes- it's not always all or nothing. So the kid wears jeans, no black hat, listens to non Jewish music (not in front of his siblings) but because his parents were supportive he still davens 3 times a day, totally shomer shabbos and kashrus 100%. And the community accepts these kids too.
Just wanted to throw that out there, for those that think Judaism is all or nothing. It doesn't have to be.

Maya

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 3:15 pm

Barbara wrote:

Maya wrote:

Are you talking about the latest NYPost article?

I'm someone who grew up with her, in her community and spent some time with her teaching together in the same school after graduation. I can say with certainty - and most of the Satmar graduates on this site will back me up on this - that some of the mental issues her father had must have passed on to her genetically.

Much of what she writes in the book is very exaggerated at the best, and outright lies at the worst. I'm very surprised that a publishing house of that stature would not look into the veracity of a memoir. Anyone with a tiny brain can tell you that a big part of the book is simply untrue and there only for the shock value.

She had to drop everything to gain everything? What did she gain? Obviously not a life. If she would have a life that would be as free and happy as she claims to be, she'd just move on instead of constantly showing up all over to bash the community.

I will say this much: I admire women who find their own way in life no matter how difficult it is for them, even if it means leaving Yiddishkeit. But I am simply disgusted by her need to keep on viciously attacking and spreading lies about the community who raised her in what they felt was the best way they could.

I edited my post. I did NOT mean to say she has mental issues. I know nothing about her state of mind.

I have not read the book since it's not out yet. I have seen and heard interviews and articles, and so many of them had me shaking my head in wonder. For example, on her BBC interview, she claims that the first time she wore makeup was at her wedding. I worked with her for an entire year before she got married, and saw her wear makeup every single day.

I realize this is an insignificant detail, but if there's this one lie, why can't you believe how many others there are.

And, nowhere did I write that I am happy. Where did you see me claim that I am happy?

Maya

Tue, Feb 07 2012, 3:24 pm

Look, if people want to believe that a 17-year old girl is considered "old for marriage" when the fact is that almost no one gets engaged before 18 and most at 19, go right ahead. If you want to believe that there is a curfew in Williamsburg and it's not just in her own head, go right ahead. I'm out of there by now and this is probably not affect me in the way it might affect Williamsburg women.

But it's so sad that women on here will grasp at ANYTHING just to "prove" that the Chassidish lifestyle is crazy.

zaq

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 9:57 am

I haven't yet read the book, seeing as how long the "holds" list is at the library, but from the jacket blurbs I was prepared to be sympathetic and admiring of an oppressed, discriminated-against woman who started out with nothing but the courage to leave her community and make a life for herself. An inspiration, indeed.

However, her TV interviews and website have changed all that. She comes off as a rather malicious tazatzke, only too thrilled to make fun of her former family and community, who left to indulge her wild and undisciplined fantasies. Not to escape predetermined social roles, not to pursue the Torah study that was denied to her, but to be able to smoke and drink and throw off the yoke of Malchus Shamayim.

I'd have a lot more respect for her if she had just become a regular person and didn't take such obvious delight in bedavka eating shrimp and pork and dressing like a slut.

yksraya

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 10:53 am

first and foremost, lets remember that she wasn't a typical satmar girl. she was a confused kid living with her grandmother. she went to another school where she acted up (obviously in result of her confused life) and was dropped out as a very young girl (5th grade) she was then admitted to satmar ONLY because the principal is her aunt.

I'm not judging her, as she had a very confused life. a non frum mother (who kept on visiting her and having a bad influence on her) and a mental ill father. growing up with a grandmother (who is not as young and energetic to raise a teenager) must have been very hard for her.

she probably saw her mother with rose colored glasses and was mad at everyone for taking her away from her mom (there might have been a legal battle when her mother became OTD).

Most girls who are not happy don't go OTD. I think it's just her terrible confusion that led her to where she is now.

ps. most of what she claims are either lies or exaggerated. but, for someone carrying a large amount of bitterness due to a hard and embarrassing upbringing it makes sense for her wanting to bash satmar to take revenge for what she went through, thinking it will ease her bitter feelings.

EmesOrNT

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 12:20 pm

Tova wrote:

slushiemom wrote:

Having read the book, I'll say that the interviews and articles shes done are WAY more inflammatory than the book itself. Seeing the interviews etc before reading the book made me surprised at how tame the book really was.

Yes, this was my impression too.

Mine too.

Just wondering about something though. When I said she dressed like a slut, I got everyone jumping down my throat. Zaq says it…. No Comment.

Hmmmm….

MrsDash

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 1:39 pm

emesornt wrote:

Tova wrote:

slushiemom wrote:

Yes, this was my impression too.

Mine too.

Just wondering about something though. When I said she dressed like a slut, I got everyone jumping down my throat. Zaq says it…. No Comment.

Hmmmm….

Perhaps you are the Rush Limbaugh, and Zaq is the Bill Maher of the Imamother forums political world. LOL

EmesOrNT

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 1:43 pm

yoshi wrote:

emesornt wrote:

Tova wrote:

slushiemom wrote:

Yes, this was my impression too.

Mine too.

Just wondering about something though. When I said she dressed like a slut, I got everyone jumping down my throat. Zaq says it…. No Comment.

Hmmmm….

Perhaps you are the Rush Limbaugh, and Zaq is the Bill Maher of the Imamother forums political world. LOL

Well.

Isnt that nice. The Imamother Double Standard. Hmph….

Sherri

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 1:46 pm

emesornt wrote:

yoshi wrote:

emesornt wrote:

Tova wrote:

slushiemom wrote:

Yes, this was my impression too.

Mine too.

Just wondering about something though. When I said she dressed like a slut, I got everyone jumping down my throat. Zaq says it…. No Comment.

Hmmmm….

Perhaps you are the Rush Limbaugh, and Zaq is the Bill Maher of the Imamother forums political world. LOL

Well.

Isnt that nice. The Imamother Double Standard. Hmph….

I don't remember who "jumped" on you originally, but I think people's interest in this topic has died down a bit, and zaq only posted what she did quite recently. Give people a chance. Smile

Clarissa

Fri, Apr 20 2012, 3:14 pm

I want to say something, but not about Feldman -- about Maya. She has a great amount of respect for people who march to their own drummer and push up against limitations imposed by any sect or community. So she has a Satmar voice but isn't THE Satmar voice. Meaning, if she has a problem with Feldman or what she's read that Feldman says, you don't have to agree with her, but you should know where she's coming from. And where she's coming from is the voice of one of the most independent Satmar women I've "met" on this site.