Purchasing kosher fish from a non kosher fish store

Sparkle

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 8:59 pm

Has anyone heard of a psak of being allowed to purchase a kosher fish fillet (for example salmon) if they scrape the entire fillet with a plastic knife before cooking? Obviously I'm not looking to pasken from Imamother, but I was surprised to hear this and I was wondering if this is a well-known psak. TIA

Frenchfry

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 9:06 pm

You need to make sure it has the skin on so you can see the scales. My dh asked the head of a well known kashrus organization and he said its no prob.

I've found that in walmart they generally leave the skin on. In costco its off.

Once I bring it home I wash it very well, scrape it on all sides and rinse it.

Sparkle

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 9:11 pm

Thank you frenchfry :-)
Do you feel comfortable writing which kashrus organization? I really want to get to the bottom of this, since I don't live in a large Jewish community and getting wild caught fish is not so simple.

MaBelleVie

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 9:15 pm

It isn't an out there psak at all. Any Rav familiar with kashrus should be able to give you guidelines for buying fish without a hechsher. There are many large Jewish communities around the world that all buy fish in regular fish markets- no reason you need a special kosher store, besides convenience (and it definitely drives up the prices) Smile

nylon

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 9:28 pm

Sparkle wrote:

Very well known. Without it, some of us couldn't buy fish.

Even before, I heard "it's best to buy in a kosher store, but..."

In more Jewish areas they sometimes have a kosher knife and board.

Sparkle

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 9:40 pm

What's new for me is hearing that I may be able to purchase fillets instead of the entire fish (very pricey, and very tedious bringing home and packing individually into the freezer).

SZH

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 10:04 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

You need to make sure it has the skin on so you can see the scales. My dh asked the head of a well known kashrus organization and he said its no prob.

As far as I know this is the case with ask fish besides salmon, since it has a unique colored flesh.

amother

Thu, Feb 09 2012, 11:02 pm

I was never told to scrape it with a plastic knife. Just wash very, very well.

Even in places where they typically sell certain fish with the skin removed, they usually remove it on site (Maybe not in a big operation like Costco but in normal groceries and markets) and you can make arrangement for them to put aside a piece for you. This is how I get my tuna and sea bass which they tend to skin before putting in the cases.

Chana Miriam S

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 12:12 am

all orange fleshed fish are kosher and do not require skin to buy them. depending on who you ask, you may be required to scrape the fish but it is generally a light action, not one that ruins the fish. most of the major hashgacha organizations are in agreement about the orange flesh fish thing. the ou's statement on orange fleshed fish is often referenced when talking about this issue and I know I personally became familiar with it because crc used the statement and attributed it to the ou.

I buy all my fish (or at least the ones with skin on) at my local vietnamese store. They have many different kinds of whole fish plus these massive salmon. they cut you off a hunk. I do scrape the ends that are cut with their knives and rinse it off but since I am fileting it myself, it is really a very quick one second thing because there are not many cut surfaces on the fish.

also, many stores will be happy to bring you fish from the back, where the salmon might even be in a box with hashgacha on it. that is the case in our local grocery store.

good luck!

Chana Miriam S

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 12:18 am

http://oukosher.org/index.php/.....86301

please note he addresses fish in general, salmon and also the possibility of knives being used for unkosher fish before being used for kosher fish.

by the way, costco does not generally skin their salmon on site. they order it in already skinned. they have a few different suppliers and in fact some of them are actually kosher but you don't know what your buying once its on the tray. still, the salmon at costco is considered kosher according to the ou. you definitely should call your rav for your own communities' standards.

alpidarkomama

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 1:57 am

That's what we do! I bring my knife, scaler, and mat with me, and they're happy to do whatever I need. I can get all kinds of fish for under $3/lb this way. Or if I'm in a rush, I just take the whole fish and take care of it at home. YUM.

Raisin

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 4:50 am

since it is cold and not sharp food there is not a problem. The place I buy my fish knows all about kosher so he knows which fish are kosher and which are not. And I watch him cutting the fish so I know it is clean.

we did buy from him a new fish knife for pesach, which we keep at home and bring in and ask him to use.

tuna is often hard to find with the skin on so I don't get it very often. (also $$$$)

sarahd

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 5:52 am

alpidarkomama wrote:

Where did you buy your scaler? I need to scale 25 pounds of fish every few months and it takes forever with a knife, besides affecting the quality of the fish. I would love to have a scaler.

Ruchel

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 9:59 am

I've never seen a kosher fish shop. I can't go in a fish shop (gag) but my husband goes and before shabbes and holidays he sees lots of charedim, and they very rarely bring their own knife. You just need (in our psak) to see the fish is kosher for sure, and wash it before eating it in case the knife touched a non kosher fish. I live in the biggest Euro kehila and there is no fish store.

Wait, I asked dh for a better answer.
He said some hold you need to buy with the skin, some hold skin can be removed if the fish doesn't leave your sight
Some hold fish has to be rinsed after, some not
Of course if there is a knowledgeable yid at the fish store it is better and you can be more trustful
Some bring their knife
Fish with a special colour you don't have to see the scales

amother

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 10:06 am

Ruchel wrote:

He said some hold you need to buy with the skin, some hold skin can be removed if the fish doesn't leave your sight

Thank you for reminding me, I've been meaning to ask about this for some time but always forget. I would love to have the skin cut off the tuna when I buy it, since it's very expensive and I am not so good at removing only skin and end up throwing some very expensive fish away with the skin. Now I have to remember to ask the rabbi. This would sure be nice.

chocolate chips

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 10:18 am

Raisin wrote:

This is what my mother does too.

alpidarkomama

Fri, Feb 10 2012, 10:26 am

sarahd wrote:

alpidarkomama wrote:

Where did you buy your scaler? I need to scale 25 pounds of fish every few months and it takes forever with a knife, besides affecting the quality of the fish. I would love to have a scaler.

I get most of my kitchen equipment here (w/link to scaler):

http://www.webstaurantstore.co......html

I'm hoping to be doing a bunch more scaling, since we hope to BE"H "plant" tilapia in the back yard soon! Smile

Sparkle

Sun, Feb 12 2012, 1:29 am

Thank you for your replies! I emailed R' Eidlitz of kosherquest.org before shabbos, and he answered that it is fine to buy any kosher fish fillet from a regular fish store/supermarket if the scales are still attached. One is not required to scrape the fish, just rinse it. Yay! Fresh fish :-)