How are people not grossed out by preparing/cooking meat?

chanahlady

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 9:45 am

In the kitchen wrote:

You can't equate ethics with vegetarianism. Hitler was a vegetarian.

So because Hitler YMS was supposedly a vegetarian, anyone who is a vegetarian for ethical reasons is wrong? Or is like Hitler?

In the kitchen

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 11:09 am

You can lobby and petition the government to improve the horrible living conditions and treatment of the animals but becoming vegetarian won't help their plight.

Hashem gave us permission after the flood to eat meat, he didn't say that you must eat it though.

But I agree with a previous poster early on in the thread who said that it is all a matter of perspective and how you grow up, what your norms are if you become grossed out etc.

One of the signs showing the emminent arrival of Moshiach is when people of the world care more about the welfare of animals than the welfare of humans...and that was my example with Hitler y"sh.

bluebird

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 11:16 am

chanahlady wrote:

In the kitchen wrote:

You can't equate ethics with vegetarianism. Hitler was a vegetarian.

So because Hitler YMS was supposedly a vegetarian, anyone who is a vegetarian for ethical reasons is wrong? Or is like Hitler?

If I had a nickel for every time someone said something like that to me...

It's not even true. http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....arian

In the kitchen

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 11:22 am

bluebird wrote:

chanahlady wrote:

In the kitchen wrote:

You can't equate ethics with vegetarianism. Hitler was a vegetarian.

So because Hitler YMS was supposedly a vegetarian, anyone who is a vegetarian for ethical reasons is wrong? Or is like Hitler?

If I had a nickel for every time someone said something like that to me...

It's not even true. http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....arian

Interesting! Thank you for that as I had never seen a source showing that he wasn't vegetarian.

Still though everything else I said in my second post stands.

bradybunch

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 11:26 am

In the kitchen wrote:

You can lobby and petition the government to improve the horrible living conditions and treatment of the animals but becoming vegetarian won't help their plight.

I disagree. Consider how many more animals are being raised ethically (usually in small, family-owned farms) now than there were 10 years ago. This is a direct result of people choosing not to eat factory-farmed meat. Unfortunately there is currently not kosher meat like this available, and therefore we are vegetarians. Choosing to buy my eggs from a local farm where I've actually seen the living conditions of the chickens has a direct impact on supporting the farmers who are choosing to raise their chickens this way.

Furthermore, I can't possibly see myself consuming an animal that lived a life of misery. That's not an issue of what impact my decision might have on the world at large, but rather a personal decision to only participate in what I consider ethical actions.

There is an increasing awareness of these issues in MO communities, I think. I don't think it will be long before we can get ethical, kosher meat. But outside of MO, it doesn't seem to be a concern, and this is something I truly don't understand.

tsiggelle

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 11:32 am

chanahlady wrote:

In the kitchen wrote:

You can't equate ethics with vegetarianism. Hitler was a vegetarian.

So because Hitler YMS was supposedly a vegetarian, anyone who is a vegetarian for ethical reasons is wrong? Or is like Hitler?

no, I think she meant to say that you cant say that the decision to be vegetarian is because of ethics.

In the kitchen

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 11:32 am

I know chassidim (including myself) who are concerned about the horrible treatment of the animal we are eating but we are all too busy with all the expectations of us, no one just sits around...we don't have 18-25 year old college students without other obligations who can lobby and rally for such things to raise awareness...it would be a collasal undertaking, I would be thrilled if there were organic anything here in Israel. But then again the regualr price of food here is already unaffordable so I wouldn't be able to buy food at a higher price anyhow...so I can't win.

I just don't know how the people raising the animals in such crowded, dirty conditions with injections and junk gmo food etc can sleep at night. I wish they themselves would wake up and change things. Anyways...wishing won't get us anywhere. Sad

Chana Miriam S

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 1:00 pm

one of my favourite things to do is take a giant (16) pound salmon and cut it up into filets. I choose to do that when buying fresh fish to help me get the best possible fish. no problem with cutting large roasts into steaks either.

WriterMom

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 1:03 pm

chanamiriam wrote:

Total tangent, but, how do you deal with the bones? I have trouble enough making sure that pre-filleted and cleaned salmon doesn't have some bones left, I can't imagine what a hassle it would be to do it all myself. Or is it easier to get the bones out from a whole fish?

Barbara

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 1:19 pm

e_plus3 wrote:

In the kitchen wrote:

You can lobby and petition the government to improve the horrible living conditions and treatment of the animals but becoming vegetarian won't help their plight.

http://kolfoods.com/

Does this meet your standards?

chanahlady

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 1:34 pm

tsiggelle wrote:

chanahlady wrote:

In the kitchen wrote:

You can't equate ethics with vegetarianism. Hitler was a vegetarian.

So because Hitler YMS was supposedly a vegetarian, anyone who is a vegetarian for ethical reasons is wrong? Or is like Hitler?

no, I think she meant to say that you cant say that the decision to be vegetarian is because of ethics.

Still don't see how this follows. So because a non-ethical person does something due to ethical considerations, the merit of that thing not being done on ethical considerations is negated? And I've also read that it's not established that Hitler was definitely a vegetarian.

Chana Miriam S

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 1:38 pm

WriterMom wrote:

chanamiriam wrote:

a BIG whole salmon is way easier to debone than other small fish. Even so, the sizes of the pin bones fluctuate from fish to fish even in one weight class.

I use my fingers and fingernails, because tweezers and pliers can break the bones but typically once you understand the fish's anatomy it is much easier to guess where the bones are. if bones really annoy you, try using mostly tail pieces. way fewer bones!

and, yes, it is a hassle, but I actually enjoy doing it, so to me it is preferable since I can get better fish because of it.

tsiggelle

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 1:46 pm

chanahlady wrote:

tsiggelle wrote:

chanahlady wrote:

In the kitchen wrote:

You can't equate ethics with vegetarianism. Hitler was a vegetarian.

So because Hitler YMS was supposedly a vegetarian, anyone who is a vegetarian for ethical reasons is wrong? Or is like Hitler?

no, I think she meant to say that you cant say that the decision to be vegetarian is because of ethics.

no, I think it was just a general idea that being a vegetarian isnt automatically because of ethics. there are more reasons

no matter if the ymsh was or not

ora_43

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 1:59 pm

Of course organic free-range meat (kosher or not) is prohibitively expensive. Why do you all think factory farming started? Purely for the fun of hurting animals?

The places on earth where food is completely organic and natural are the places where the average person spends something like 50-80% of their salary on food. And meat is something you eat on holidays and at weddings, if that.

Ruchel

Tue, Feb 21 2012, 2:28 pm

I don't see the problem. A pet is a pet, you know it. I wouldn't be able to kill or even just eat an animal I knew, unless I was starving. I don't know my steak.

I also only buy in clean butcheries, yes gross ones gross me out. But beautiful meat? Yum!