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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:45 pm
Ruchel wrote:
If they don't have a room time (many of my friends did), then you go to your room and teach them to not disturb.

.


I don't know any teens who have a 'room time'. My teenagers go to bed really late as well - very often after midnight.
Once you have older kids you don't get 'alone' time with your dh unless you go to your own room.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:47 pm
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:49 pm
Tablepoetry wrote:
Ruchel wrote:
If they don't have a room time (many of my friends did), then you go to your room and teach them to not disturb.

.


I don't know any teens who have a 'room time'. My teenagers go to bed really late as well - very often after midnight.
Once you have older kids you don't get 'alone' time with your dh unless you go to your own room.


I went to bed pretty late, much later than midnight for sure, as a teen. But after a certain hour there was just nothing to do hanging out in the living room. My parents could still be there, or in their room. I didn't have a strict room time. My dh and some of my friends had. It seems more common in stricter circles (very frum, or non Jewish but very conservative). Some teens even have a bedtime.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:53 pm
Ruchel wrote:
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
Its not just israel. The schools that I was talking about were in america. Ruchel, some kids NEED that help. I am not talking about kids who can tell the teacher "please, explain that again". I am talkinga bout kids who need more than that, more than is allotted the teacher in the time they are given to teach the subject. Then the student needs more help. And if parents can help, then whats the big deal?
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:55 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Ruchel wrote:
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
Its not just israel. The schools that I was talking about were in america. Ruchel, some kids NEED that help. I am not talking about kids who can tell the teacher "please, explain that again". I am talkinga bout kids who need more than that, more than is allotted the teacher in the time they are given to teach the subject. Then the student needs more help. And if parents can help, then whats the big deal?


I see what Ruchel is saying though. There is a mentality, at least here in Israel, that of course the parents will help, so the teacher can rush through a bit. I assume there are countries where there is no such assumption and so they teach at a much slower (and more thorough) pace.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:55 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Ruchel wrote:
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
Its not just israel. The schools that I was talking about were in america. Ruchel, some kids NEED that help. I am not talking about kids who can tell the teacher "please, explain that again". I am talkinga bout kids who need more than that, more than is allotted the teacher in the time they are given to teach the subject. Then the student needs more help. And if parents can help, then whats the big deal?


If many kids end up needing help, it means there is a problem with the teacher or the system (unless the parents don't mind). Of course there will always be a few kids needing help even with the best teacher and system. But when it becomes a given, it is not something I would agree with and certainly not pay for.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:59 pm
Tablepoetry wrote:
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Ruchel wrote:
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
Its not just israel. The schools that I was talking about were in america. Ruchel, some kids NEED that help. I am not talking about kids who can tell the teacher "please, explain that again". I am talkinga bout kids who need more than that, more than is allotted the teacher in the time they are given to teach the subject. Then the student needs more help. And if parents can help, then whats the big deal?


I see what Ruchel is saying though. There is a mentality, at least here in Israel, that of course the parents will help, so the teacher can rush through a bit. I assume there are countries where there is no such assumption and so they teach at a much slower (and more thorough) pace.


I remember finding the rhythm at school very slow (but that was me) and ended up skipping a grade bh. I do see with dd's school that they take foreverrrrrrrr to learn another letter, another vowel, blah blah. Because indeed they need kids to learn.

Mati is in second cheder year and they are only at the second vowel in Hebrew, and not even through the French alphabet (I think at J or something).
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 5:00 pm
Ruchel wrote:
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Ruchel wrote:
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
Its not just israel. The schools that I was talking about were in america. Ruchel, some kids NEED that help. I am not talking about kids who can tell the teacher "please, explain that again". I am talkinga bout kids who need more than that, more than is allotted the teacher in the time they are given to teach the subject. Then the student needs more help. And if parents can help, then whats the big deal?


If many kids end up needing help, it means there is a problem with the teacher or the system (unless the parents don't mind). Of course there will always be a few kids needing help even with the best teacher and system. But when it becomes a given, it is not something I would agree with and certainly not pay for.
I was referring to the "not given", those kids that may need help. I was not talking about the majority of the class or anything. It just sounded to me, from your post, that a parent wont help at all, no matter what, because it is not their job.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 5:01 pm
Tablepoetry wrote:
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Ruchel wrote:
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
Its not just israel. The schools that I was talking about were in america. Ruchel, some kids NEED that help. I am not talking about kids who can tell the teacher "please, explain that again". I am talkinga bout kids who need more than that, more than is allotted the teacher in the time they are given to teach the subject. Then the student needs more help. And if parents can help, then whats the big deal?


I see what Ruchel is saying though. There is a mentality, at least here in Israel, that of course the parents will help, so the teacher can rush through a bit. I assume there are countries where there is no such assumption and so they teach at a much slower (and more thorough) pace.
I never had a teacher rush through things. I was talking about the few children in a class that needed that extra help to be able to succeed.
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 5:03 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Tablepoetry wrote:
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Ruchel wrote:
I wouldn't be happy having to pay a school + help like nuts + a tutor through high school. But if parents in Israel like it that way, good! I prefer being here and considered among the most involved parents.

For the record, I went through all types of schools, public and private, posh and "bad suburb", and in between.
Its not just israel. The schools that I was talking about were in america. Ruchel, some kids NEED that help. I am not talking about kids who can tell the teacher "please, explain that again". I am talkinga bout kids who need more than that, more than is allotted the teacher in the time they are given to teach the subject. Then the student needs more help. And if parents can help, then whats the big deal?


I see what Ruchel is saying though. There is a mentality, at least here in Israel, that of course the parents will help, so the teacher can rush through a bit. I assume there are countries where there is no such assumption and so they teach at a much slower (and more thorough) pace.
I never had a teacher rush through things. I was talking about the few children in a class that needed that extra help to be able to succeed.


I think you'll find in Israel it's different than in America. As far as I've seen at least half the pupils in a class (in elementary) need some help a few times a week from their parents - help in explaining a math strategy, help in studying for an English exam, etc etc.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 5:06 pm
If it's just a few kids, they may indeed need help from the parents, but I still suspect many parents won't do it because it's foreign to them and they will assume there's a problem with rushing or a lazy teacher.

I would help if really it was no one's fault, but would certainly demand to see lessons, and even visit other schools, because to me it is not at all the normal situation to have to help regularly or have a tutor before, say, the end of middle school.

I'm talking here of parents who expect their child to pass class (which is totally enough here, though a B always pleases the parents and a A is wow), not parents who expect As average or anything like that.
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Pickle Lady




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 8:02 pm
Yes I have noticed that having older kids has made it nearly impossible for me to to the activities I did when my oldest was 5. I have mostly boys so that also makes the difference in the environment of the home. My boys are in school longer than my daughter.

Is it just me or do kids need more attention as they get older?
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 8:38 pm
I think kids need more quality time/emotional investment than quantity time/physical assistance, as they get older.
But I think I'm seeing the results of quality time not quite being quality and so the attention-getting gimmicks are dragged out longer than the typical quantity time/physical assistance would take.

Whatever. Who knows. Rolling Eyes
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amother


 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 9:26 pm
Ruchel obviously in France you start learning earlier. My son is Matti's age and he is only learning aleph bais, no nekiudos and for sure no abc's either.

Also I think the problem is that in the more right wing circles the teachers are underpaid and underqualified and because of that they don't teach well and then parents have to pick up the tab.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 10:26 pm
It depends on the school. Some start the Hebrew letters in first grade (6). We looked for a cheder program. I wish we had found a quicker or harder school as dd is bored (kah).

More right wing parents here are even less likely to have it on their radar that it would be for them to help. Bh a nice number of charedi schools deliver normal degrees hence stick to normal standards.
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eatingbagels




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Feb 25 2012, 11:57 pm
Ruchel- I'm curious. In France, don't the children have reading homework? Not all parents doing homework with children here are 'teaching' their children. They're doing homework with the child that requires their participation. If a child had to review chumash, let's say, the parent generally has to do it with the child and sign that it was done. If a child has reading homework, he/she has to read it to the parent.
If there is math homework, it's much simpler to see that your child did it, because she had to fill out answers. But reading is obviously not like that.
In France, do the children just do the reading to themselves and the parents sign?
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chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 26 2012, 3:19 am
SO my DD is in first grade, and she actually happens to be gifted, she still needs me to do her homework with her.
It's hard for a six year old to focus on her work while her siblings are playing or watching a video.
I will help her write legibly, make sure she doesn't skip any problems, etc. In Israel parents are expected to sit with their children while they are doing homework. Actually there is an afternoon program you can enroll in, where you can do your HW in school with a teacher for help. But I think it's more of a babysitting program for working parents or for parents that can't help their DC with homework for whatever reason.
I think it is essential for me to sit with DD while she's doing HW. This is my chance to see what she's been doing in class, what her strengths and weaknesses are etc. etc.
Sometimes they will have HW they can only do with a parent. This week DD had to go over the newspaper and list good news vs. bad news. That's nothing a 6 yo is expected to do on her own.


Last edited by chanchy123 on Sun, Feb 26 2012, 5:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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TzipG




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 26 2012, 5:17 am
I do not recall getting help from my parents with homework growing up. I was one of 7, schoolwork came easily to me, and I had siblings that actually needed help.

That being said, my bright 2nd and 4th graders do need help with their homework. Whether it's just sitting on them to do it and not let them dawdle, or actually help them with certain subjects that are a bit more difficult for them, I have to be available to help them, while still giving my little ones attention. It is a struggle not to just put on Uncle Moishy for them while I help the bigger kids. And get dinner ready. And put away those huge piles of laundry... Y'all know what I mean Smile
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 26 2012, 9:50 am
eatingbagels wrote:
Ruchel- I'm curious. In France, don't the children have reading homework? Not all parents doing homework with children here are 'teaching' their children. They're doing homework with the child that requires their participation. If a child had to review chumash, let's say, the parent generally has to do it with the child and sign that it was done. If a child has reading homework, he/she has to read it to the parent.
If there is math homework, it's much simpler to see that your child did it, because she had to fill out answers. But reading is obviously not like that.
In France, do the children just do the reading to themselves and the parents sign?


There's no signing. It's not supposed to be reviewed by the parents.
If there was homework requiring my participation I wouldn't be too happy paying the school... I would be fine with it before first grade, but I'm more invested in all this than the average parent.
You don't have to check a child did his homework. If he didn't, he'll have consequences at school. If it's often, the teacher will let you know and you'll be able to punish or do whatever you see fit.
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MamaBear




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 26 2012, 9:54 am
Maybe confirm with parents of older kid, Ruchel? Your daughter is 4? Second grade is when homework started needing some minimal parental involvement. At age 4 it was basically educational playtime with basic pre reading skills.
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