My neighbour's son asked my son to kill him

amother

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 8:28 am

I am wondering what to do about this situation:

My neighbour is known to be an abusive mother. (She has 5 boys). We hear her screaming at the kids, and when my son saw her chasing her 8-year old son out of the house, and biting him on his arm, we reported him to the Child Protective Services. She was called in to the police, and threatened that her son might be taken away, if she didn't shape up.

At that time, her son was also coming to me for lunch, because he didn't have any, and she wasn't at home to give him food. (ie. he would go to cheder with a sandwich, and not eat again until about 4pm).

Her other children often have bruises on their heads, faces and arms.

This boy recently asked my son (who is 13), if "he could kill him, because he doesn't want to live anymore". I have heard him say this before.

He is getting bullied at school (I have a son who is in the same class), and we are trying to help him with this. When his parents tried to speak to the rebbe, they were told, "that their son often starts". So, now, this boy has no-one to help him, because if he tells about the bullying, he gets screamed at by his mother, "for starting". According to my son, he doesn't start. He tries to defend himself.

My question is this: this boy is close to his father (but his father travels overseas often for work). This mother doesn't want to lose her son. He is close to his 2 younger brothers (whom he often has to babysit).

This boy has mentioned to my son, that he wishes he could "switch mothers", but both because we are neighbours, and because I have my own stuff going on in my life, I couldn't take him in.

Should I take this step and report what this boy said to my son?

amother

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 8:40 am

I'm in Eretz Yisrael. My question is should I contact the social worker and push for them to get him out of this house?

It's a big decision.

This boy drew a picture of himself which I found, which shows a boy with such a sad face with his name next to it. Is this a case of sakanas nefesh?

The wife also suspects me of reporting her. I don't really care. I'd prefer to be on speaking terms with her, but I think this little boys' emotional state is more important.

m in Israel

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 8:50 am

At risk of sounding cliched, you need to speak to a Rav ASAP! If this mother is in fact abusive or severely neglectful, you likely have a CHIYUV to report it. The question is to who and how. I don't really know the Israeli system. You mentioned a social worker who is involved in the case -- that may be right address. It's not your decision if the child will be taken away from his parents or not -- but you need to make sure that the people making those decisions have accurate information. You cannot stand by and allow a child to be destroyed, both emotionally and physically.

ora_43

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 9:01 am

amother wrote:

I'm in Eretz Yisrael. My question is should I contact the social worker and push for them to get him out of this house?

No, you should contact the social worker and tell him or her exactly what you said here.

You don't need to make the call on whether the child should be at home or not. Those aren't the only two options, either. More likely is, they'll see about getting the child new services while he's still in the home (therapy, etc), or possibly see about partial removal from the home (eg. sending him to a "bayit cham" in the afternoons instead of straight home from school).

But again, you don't need to make that call. You don't call the social worker and say, "I think such-and-such needs to be taken out of his home," or even, "I think such-and-such needs therapy," you just tell them, "I'm worried about such-and-such because he told my son ....... and I also saw that he drew a picture ...... "

5*Mom

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 10:26 am

IMO this is not a question for a rav. This boy needs help. This mother needs help, not a warning. This needs to be reported. The questions is to whom and how effective will reporting be. The social services system is overburdened and understaffed and you may need some additional help to get the right response. I would suggest you call either HaMoatza Leshlom HaYeled or Magen, which are independent child protection agencies and they may be able to direct you to the most effective route and possibly get involved to make sure things move in the right direction in a professional manner.

HaMoatza Leshlom HaYeled--02-678-0606

Magen--02-999-9678 or 050-848-9001

ETA: The primary goal is to keep families intact while providing the help necessary to becoming a more functional family unit. He will not necessarily be removed, but they may get the professional intervention they need to deal with the root of these problems.

smiledr

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 11:13 am

This makes me sad. I think u need to contact the proper authorities and provide him w tlc in the meantime including telling him if he needs s o to talk to he should come to u. Its a burden on ur part but hes a child who doesnt seem to get enuf luv at home and a little from u can go a long way.

ElTam

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 1:21 pm

I agree you need to call the authorities again if the abuse is ongoing. I am one to ask shailahs, but my rav once said, "Don't ask a shailah if you aren't prepared to hold by the psak." I would not be prepared to hold by a psak that I should not report clear signs of neglect and abuse. I would be prepared to take it up with HKB"H in the future.

I have called the police twice (several years apart, in different cities) when there was a beating going on that was so loud I could hear in my house.

Last edited by ElTam on Tue, Mar 13 2012, 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 1:26 pm

Will you be able to live with yourself if this boy does in fact kill himself?

The neighbors who heard and saw me and my siblings being abused and did nothing because we were "such a nice family" and my parents knew how to put on a good face, I wonder how they sleep at night. The truth is, they probably don't think about it.

Or maybe he won't kill himself, but he'll live with a lifetime of depression, PTSD, etc. and perhaps go on to become an abuser himself.

IloveHashem613

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 1:31 pm

m in Israel wrote:

Nothing to do with a Rav...get professional help asap! Not that a Rav can't help but sometimes many Rabbanim are not equipped to deal with these situations and either dont take it seriously enough or damage it more. You need to call child protective services or whatever they have in Israel. I pray this boy gets the help he needs.

amother

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 3:25 pm

B"H my sons talk of suicide was reported. In his case to his yeshiva rebbe, who spoke to me and I got him in therapy. Years later I asked if he really was suicidal or if it was just talk. It wasn't just talk.

Report what you heard to the social worker since there is already one involved with the family. They are more likely to get him into therapy than to remove him from the house.

amother

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 4:35 pm

This is the OP.

Thank you everyone for all your replies!!!

Today, I called another neighbour in my building, who knows the story, and she said that she would contact outside people who could help the family. Her understanding (from her past dealings with this family and knowing that the CPS is involved), is that it's actually best for the kids to be raised by their parents. But the parents need a lot of outside help.

I just hope and pray that this boy will be alright. I think the bullying at school is getting to him.

5*Mom

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 4:44 pm

amother wrote:

Please please make sure these are properly trained professionals who are qualified to intervene and not just neighborhood askanim who surely mean well but do not have the knowledge or skills to provide the kind of help this family needs.

ora_43

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 4:52 pm

amother wrote:

It sounds like it's not just the family that needs help, but also the school. Do you think that his teachers/rebbes would take the bullying any more seriously if they were aware how badly it's affecting him?

vicki

Tue, Mar 13 2012, 5:02 pm

ElTam wrote:

Yes, this. Please go straight to the authorities.