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Binah article about a teen with an ipod
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 21 2012, 9:59 pm
Barbara wrote:
Why does it seem that frum people are always "addicted"

Doesn't anyone take personal responsibility?

"Hey, I like [filth]. Every once in a while, when you're nidda, or busy with the kids, or just because I feel like it, I watch. I'm in control. I made the decision. I can stop. I don't want to."

"I listened to my iPod on Shabbat. I know if assur, but I'm a teen, and sometimes teens make bad decisions. But this was my choice."

I think I'm going to declare myself addicted to lobster tail with drawn butter. Now its not my fault if I eat treyf. Blame the folks in Maine.


Internet addiction (as well as s@x addiction, food addiction etc.) is by no means exclusive to the frum community and the examples you gave are not examples of a person with an addiction. An addiction is like a compulsion. A person cannot simply be in control and decide to stop, at least not long-term.
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chavamom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 21 2012, 10:00 pm
Barbara wrote:
Why does it seem that frum people are always "addicted"

Doesn't anyone take personal responsibility?

"Hey, I like [filth]. Every once in a while, when you're nidda, or busy with the kids, or just because I feel like it, I watch. I'm in control. I made the decision. I can stop. I don't want to."

"I listened to my iPod on Shabbat. I know if assur, but I'm a teen, and sometimes teens make bad decisions. But this was my choice."

I think I'm going to declare myself addicted to lobster tail with drawn butter. Now its not my fault if I eat treyf. Blame the folks in Maine.


I guess the implication is that they have a problem with an "addiction" and not a "taiva". B/c addictions are kosher (sort of - or at least not your fault, so much. You have an addiction!) and taivas are not.
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chavamom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 21 2012, 10:02 pm
mamommommy wrote:
Barbara wrote:
Why does it seem that frum people are always "addicted"

Doesn't anyone take personal responsibility?

"Hey, I like [filth]. Every once in a while, when you're nidda, or busy with the kids, or just because I feel like it, I watch. I'm in control. I made the decision. I can stop. I don't want to."

"I listened to my iPod on Shabbat. I know if assur, but I'm a teen, and sometimes teens make bad decisions. But this was my choice."

I think I'm going to declare myself addicted to lobster tail with drawn butter. Now its not my fault if I eat treyf. Blame the folks in Maine.


Internet addiction (as well as s@x addiction, food addiction etc.) is by no means exclusive to the frum community and the examples you gave are not examples of a person with an addiction. An addiction is like a compulsion. A person cannot simply be in control and decide to stop, at least not long-term.


But she is correct in that we hear so much about frum people being ADDICTED to [filth], internet, etc. I think truly being "addicted" to most of these things is relatively rare in the world at large and greatly overstated in the frum community.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Mar 21 2012, 10:06 pm
The world at large watches TV, uses the internet, and does whatever else they want to do, and don't call it an addiction, they call it normal behavior. Frum people should not be doing any of that, so if they do, its called an addiction. Difference between taiva and addiction? Hmmmm. Difference between the yetzer hara and the yetzer tov? Eating treif or being mechalel Shabbos? All the same thing, the yetzer hara!
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 21 2012, 10:07 pm
chavamom wrote:
mamommommy wrote:
Barbara wrote:
Why does it seem that frum people are always "addicted"

Doesn't anyone take personal responsibility?

"Hey, I like [filth]. Every once in a while, when you're nidda, or busy with the kids, or just because I feel like it, I watch. I'm in control. I made the decision. I can stop. I don't want to."

"I listened to my iPod on Shabbat. I know if assur, but I'm a teen, and sometimes teens make bad decisions. But this was my choice."

I think I'm going to declare myself addicted to lobster tail with drawn butter. Now its not my fault if I eat treyf. Blame the folks in Maine.


Internet addiction (as well as s@x addiction, food addiction etc.) is by no means exclusive to the frum community and the examples you gave are not examples of a person with an addiction. An addiction is like a compulsion. A person cannot simply be in control and decide to stop, at least not long-term.


But she is correct in that we hear so much about frum people being ADDICTED to [filth], internet, etc. I think truly being "addicted" to most of these things is pretty rare in the world at large.


No. They're some of the most common addictions in the world at large.

It is certainly possible that you are correct that people in the frum world are more likely to want it to be an addiction ("My dh is looking at [filth] so there must be something mentally wrong with him") as opposed to it being that they simply cannot control a normal taivah.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 21 2012, 10:07 pm
chavamom wrote:
mamommommy wrote:
Barbara wrote:
Why does it seem that frum people are always "addicted"

Doesn't anyone take personal responsibility?

"Hey, I like [filth]. Every once in a while, when you're nidda, or busy with the kids, or just because I feel like it, I watch. I'm in control. I made the decision. I can stop. I don't want to."

"I listened to my iPod on Shabbat. I know if assur, but I'm a teen, and sometimes teens make bad decisions. But this was my choice."

I think I'm going to declare myself addicted to lobster tail with drawn butter. Now its not my fault if I eat treyf. Blame the folks in Maine.


Internet addiction (as well as s@x addiction, food addiction etc.) is by no means exclusive to the frum community and the examples you gave are not examples of a person with an addiction. An addiction is like a compulsion. A person cannot simply be in control and decide to stop, at least not long-term.


But she is correct in that we hear so much about frum people being ADDICTED to [filth], internet, etc. I think truly being "addicted" to most of these things is relatively rare in the world at large and greatly overstated in the frum community.


Thanks; that's what I meant.

Maybe some small percentage of people who look at [filth], text on Shabbat, or eat treyf are "addicted" But its become a catch phrase amongst frum Jews (and 3d rate celebs) who want to avoid taking personal responsibility for their actions.
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 21 2012, 10:21 pm
Barbara wrote:
chavamom wrote:
mamommommy wrote:
Barbara wrote:
Why does it seem that frum people are always "addicted"

Doesn't anyone take personal responsibility?

"Hey, I like [filth]. Every once in a while, when you're nidda, or busy with the kids, or just because I feel like it, I watch. I'm in control. I made the decision. I can stop. I don't want to."

"I listened to my iPod on Shabbat. I know if assur, but I'm a teen, and sometimes teens make bad decisions. But this was my choice."

I think I'm going to declare myself addicted to lobster tail with drawn butter. Now its not my fault if I eat treyf. Blame the folks in Maine.


Internet addiction (as well as s@x addiction, food addiction etc.) is by no means exclusive to the frum community and the examples you gave are not examples of a person with an addiction. An addiction is like a compulsion. A person cannot simply be in control and decide to stop, at least not long-term.


But she is correct in that we hear so much about frum people being ADDICTED to [filth], internet, etc. I think truly being "addicted" to most of these things is relatively rare in the world at large and greatly overstated in the frum community.


Thanks; that's what I meant.

Maybe some small percentage of people who look at [filth], text on Shabbat, or eat treyf are "addicted" But its become a catch phrase amongst frum Jews (and 3d rate celebs) who want to avoid taking personal responsibility for their actions.


I don't disagree that that's a distinct possibility (as I've written above), but certain activities are specifically more addictive than others in the true sense, and they are the same activities for the frum community as for the world at large, and studies on their prevalence are actually frightening.
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5*Mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 2:29 am
Hi, my name is 5*Mom. I used to be an addict--to Mishpacha and Binah. I've been sober for almost a year and I'm taking it one week at a time.

Honestly, I've never felt so clear-headed!
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 2:53 am
someone who otherwise keeps shabbos but uses an ipod or computer is probably suffering from some sort of addiction.

There are plenty of frum people who use these things without feeling compelled to use them on shabbos. Me, for example.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 5:47 am
Raisin wrote:
someone who otherwise keeps shabbos but uses an ipod or computer is probably suffering from some sort of addiction.

There are plenty of frum people who use these things without feeling compelled to use them on shabbos. Me, for example.


I would love to use the internet on Shabbos, but I control my compulsion.
I would also like to eat shrimp, pork, and crabcakes, but since I never tasted them I cannot be addicted to them. I want to watch [filth], and filthy shows on TV and do all sorts of things that are forbidden by the Torah. But because I am an observant Jew, I control myself. I am addicted to one mothers forum, if there would be more than one, I would be addicted to that one too.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 5:49 am
5*Mom wrote:
Hi, my name is 5*Mom. I used to be an addict--to Mishpacha and Binah. I've been sober for almost a year and I'm taking it one week at a time.

Honestly, I've never felt so clear-headed!


Honey, thanks for coming clean. It is the first step to recovery. I think I will be joining you in the near future.
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 6:44 am
I have a ffeeling that this girl wasn't going to be almost baptized, but there really was a boy at the other end and Binah obviously wasn't going to write that...
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amother


 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 7:28 am
Here's a true story about a teenage girl who spent enormous amounts of time on the internet. She was 'addicted' to several Harry Potter websites. She would write HP fanfiction during boring classes in school, participate in HP forums rather than study for tests on subjects that bored her, even chatted with fellow HP fans all over the world. Most of them were girls. A couple of them were boys.

She spent a good few years of her life on those sites, and she doesn't regret a single moment. Chatting with people her own age gave her something she didn't have in real life - friends who were as nuts about Harry Potter as she was.

She learned to make graphics and practiced her writing and research skills, through contests on those sites. She enjoyed chatting with the boy from Portugal, who admitted that he was gay but having trouble coming out to his parents. He used to argue that Americans were spoiled and fat. She argued that he sounded jealous. He admitted she was right and he wanted to move to America. She wished him good luck.

She knew another guy whom she didn't chat with that often, but one memorable night she stayed up all night chatting with him. He had been abused as a child, had temper issues. He had broken up with his girlfriend, whom he had gotten pregnant. He told the girl about all the abuse he had gone through, and how he felt like killing himself. She chatted with him for 10 hours, mostly just listening, and telling him there were people in the world who would miss him if he was gone. She didn't really mean she would miss him. She barely knew him, and felt little respect for a guy who would leave his pregnant girlfriend, no matter what he'd gone through as a child. But she felt responsible to listen, if that was what he needed.

She had friends who were girls, too. From England, the US, Poland. She was closer to them than to the boys, sharing photos and telling them about momentous events in her life. One in particular, the Polish girl, found the girl's accounts of Jewish life fascinating. Another girl was actually Jewish, Conservative. She too enjoyed hearing about Orthodox Jewish life.

So. What happened to all this? The last Harry Potter book came out. It was no longer so much fun to speculate. The girl got older, and busier. A couple of years after the last HP book came out, the girl lost all interest in the sites. She still communicated with the Polish girl, but spent more time texting and talking to her chosson.

Then she got married, got even busier, found other sites (like imamother) that she was more interested in.

She never used the internet on Shabbos. She would like to, in the same way she would like to do many things that are assur. But she won't. Because she believes in G-d and doesn't want to break His commandments.

So. She is still Jewish. Happily married with no boyfriend on the side, despite having *gasp* CHATTED with boys online.

Through it all, she has always loved to read.

She is probably addicted to books.

**

What do I think of all this? I agree that 'addiction' is very, very overused. I think that most people are just doing something they enjoy very much (like [filth]) but can stop with the right motivation or if they become more busy, more tired or just feel like being in control of it. Do I have personal experience with this? YES. I do. And I won't elaborate any more, even anonymously.

I sometimes get the urge to eat a cookie. I can't control it. I have a cookie, and I rarely stop at just one. I need another, and another, and soon I've eaten half the package. I find it easier to abstain entirely and not have them in the house at all. Sounds like addictive behavior, doesn't it? Maybe I need an intervention. Twisted Evil

I'm so tired of all the MELODRAMA surrounding the topic of 'internet addiction.' How do people have the energy for it? Rolling Eyes
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bigsis144




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 7:35 am
amother wrote:
Here's a true story about a teenage girl who spent enormous amounts of time on the internet. She was 'addicted' to several Harry Potter websites. She would write HP fanfiction during boring classes in school, participate in HP forums rather than study for tests on subjects that bored her, even chatted with fellow HP fans all over the world. Most of them were girls. A couple of them were boys.

She spent a good few years of her life on those sites, and she doesn't regret a single moment. Chatting with people her own age gave her something she didn't have in real life - friends who were as nuts about Harry Potter as she was.

She learned to make graphics and practiced her writing and research skills, through contests on those sites. She enjoyed chatting with the boy from Portugal, who admitted that he was gay but having trouble coming out to his parents. He used to argue that Americans were spoiled and fat. She argued that he sounded jealous. He admitted she was right and he wanted to move to America. She wished him good luck.

She knew another guy whom she didn't chat with that often, but one memorable night she stayed up all night chatting with him. He had been abused as a child, had temper issues. He had broken up with his girlfriend, whom he had gotten pregnant. He told the girl about all the abuse he had gone through, and how he felt like killing himself. She chatted with him for 10 hours, mostly just listening, and telling him there were people in the world who would miss him if he was gone. She didn't really mean she would miss him. She barely knew him, and felt little respect for a guy who would leave his pregnant girlfriend, no matter what he'd gone through as a child. But she felt responsible to listen, if that was what he needed.

She had friends who were girls, too. From England, the US, Poland. She was closer to them than to the boys, sharing photos and telling them about momentous events in her life. One in particular, the Polish girl, found the girl's accounts of Jewish life fascinating. Another girl was actually Jewish, Conservative. She too enjoyed hearing about Orthodox Jewish life.

So. What happened to all this? The last Harry Potter book came out. It was no longer so much fun to speculate. The girl got older, and busier. A couple of years after the last HP book came out, the girl lost all interest in the sites. She still communicated with the Polish girl, but spent more time texting and talking to her chosson.

Then she got married, got even busier, found other sites (like imamother) that she was more interested in.

She never used the internet on Shabbos. She would like to, in the same way she would like to do many things that are assur. But she won't. Because she believes in G-d and doesn't want to break His commandments.

So. She is still Jewish. Happily married with no boyfriend on the side, despite having *gasp* CHATTED with boys online.

Through it all, she has always loved to read.

She is probably addicted to books.

**

What do I think of all this? I agree that 'addiction' is very, very overused. I think that most people are just doing something they enjoy very much (like [filth]) but can stop with the right motivation or if they become more busy, more tired or just feel like being in control of it. Do I have personal experience with this? YES. I do. And I won't elaborate any more, even anonymously.

I sometimes get the urge to eat a cookie. I can't control it. I have a cookie, and I rarely stop at just one. I need another, and another, and soon I've eaten half the package. I find it easier to abstain entirely and not have them in the house at all. Sounds like addictive behavior, doesn't it? Maybe I need an intervention. Twisted Evil

I'm so tired of all the MELODRAMA surrounding the topic of 'internet addiction.' How do people have the energy for it? Rolling Eyes


Applause

That was really well-said. I've got nothing to add except I wish I could have said this with as much honesty, common sense and grounded-ness as you.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 8:32 am
Hp amother, I recently reread the hp series and was thinking about some things. I went to one of the hp forums and it wasn't the same.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 9:37 am
I believe that most of you don't have a valid argument to stand upon cuz you have your own internet addictions. You are addicted to imamother! The amount of posts some people have are seriously indicative of addiction.
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 9:43 am
AS someone with 6,128,951 posts, amother, I don't think you're one to lecture us on addiction Very Happy
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mamommommy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 9:47 am
amother wrote:
Here's a true story about a teenage girl who spent enormous amounts of time on the internet. She was 'addicted' to several Harry Potter websites. She would write HP fanfiction during boring classes in school, participate in HP forums rather than study for tests on subjects that bored her, even chatted with fellow HP fans all over the world. Most of them were girls. A couple of them were boys.

She spent a good few years of her life on those sites, and she doesn't regret a single moment. Chatting with people her own age gave her something she didn't have in real life - friends who were as nuts about Harry Potter as she was.

She learned to make graphics and practiced her writing and research skills, through contests on those sites. She enjoyed chatting with the boy from Portugal, who admitted that he was gay but having trouble coming out to his parents. He used to argue that Americans were spoiled and fat. She argued that he sounded jealous. He admitted she was right and he wanted to move to America. She wished him good luck.

She knew another guy whom she didn't chat with that often, but one memorable night she stayed up all night chatting with him. He had been abused as a child, had temper issues. He had broken up with his girlfriend, whom he had gotten pregnant. He told the girl about all the abuse he had gone through, and how he felt like killing himself. She chatted with him for 10 hours, mostly just listening, and telling him there were people in the world who would miss him if he was gone. She didn't really mean she would miss him. She barely knew him, and felt little respect for a guy who would leave his pregnant girlfriend, no matter what he'd gone through as a child. But she felt responsible to listen, if that was what he needed.

She had friends who were girls, too. From England, the US, Poland. She was closer to them than to the boys, sharing photos and telling them about momentous events in her life. One in particular, the Polish girl, found the girl's accounts of Jewish life fascinating. Another girl was actually Jewish, Conservative. She too enjoyed hearing about Orthodox Jewish life.

So. What happened to all this? The last Harry Potter book came out. It was no longer so much fun to speculate. The girl got older, and busier. A couple of years after the last HP book came out, the girl lost all interest in the sites. She still communicated with the Polish girl, but spent more time texting and talking to her chosson.

Then she got married, got even busier, found other sites (like imamother) that she was more interested in.

She never used the internet on Shabbos. She would like to, in the same way she would like to do many things that are assur. But she won't. Because she believes in G-d and doesn't want to break His commandments.

So. She is still Jewish. Happily married with no boyfriend on the side, despite having *gasp* CHATTED with boys online.

Through it all, she has always loved to read.

She is probably addicted to books.

**

What do I think of all this? I agree that 'addiction' is very, very overused. I think that most people are just doing something they enjoy very much (like [filth]) but can stop with the right motivation or if they become more busy, more tired or just feel like being in control of it. Do I have personal experience with this? YES. I do. And I won't elaborate any more, even anonymously.

I sometimes get the urge to eat a cookie. I can't control it. I have a cookie, and I rarely stop at just one. I need another, and another, and soon I've eaten half the package. I find it easier to abstain entirely and not have them in the house at all. Sounds like addictive behavior, doesn't it? Maybe I need an intervention. Twisted Evil

I'm so tired of all the MELODRAMA surrounding the topic of 'internet addiction.' How do people have the energy for it? Rolling Eyes


I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no understanding of what an addiction or a compulsive-impulsive behavior is. Some of the characteristics include: 1) excessive use/engagement, often associated with a loss of sense of time or a neglect of basic drives, 2) withdrawal, including feelings of anger, tension, and/or depression when the activity/item is inaccessible, 3) tolerance, including the need for more of the item or activity, and 4) negative repercussions, including arguments, lying, poor achievement, social isolation, and fatigue.
I think most people realize that it's not the same thing as simply giving in to a craving and binging on a box of cookies.

I'm sure it's likely that the term "addiction" is being thrown around and used inappropriately, but these addictions (or compulsive behaviors) truly exist are are not uncommon in the frum community or in the world at large. The fact that it's an over-used word doesn't actually mean that people truly believe that something that's called an 'addiction' in conversation is really an illness. Just like people will call someone OCD if they like things very clean when it is very obvious that the person does not truly have a mental disorder.

I wish someone would could post the original article. I'm so curious to read it.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 9:56 am
Ditto Barbara, it's so easy to make everything an illness.
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Mar 22 2012, 10:10 am
amother wrote:
Having just finished reading this anonymous article, I want to know if I am the only one that feels like throwing up! This is absolutely disgusting. A teenager is crying about her addiction to her ipod, a gift from her parents, that she is mechallel Shabbos, watching TV and doing all kinds of awful things, almost getting baptized by an internet friend, and begging us to daven for her. In addition, we have got to get all of our kids off the internet, ipods, cell phones, MP3s and everything else.

waiting for all of your intelligent opinions before I cancel my subscription to this trash.


Maybe it was a belated purim joke, or early april fools prank? If not then it's a case of someone attempting to blame everything else instead of facing up to their wrong doings.
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