Do you know any FFBs who reverted and why?

Chani

Wed, Dec 06 2006, 4:45 pm

I've seen this happen a few times as well...The ones which we were close enough to to have any idea about seemed like an amalgamation of things: bad school experience (rebbe's not receptive to questioning / abusive or intolerant atmosphere at school), growing up impoverished with many siblings, and an experience of frumkeit as cultural rather than religious (in the deepest sense).

Ribbie Danzinger

Wed, Dec 06 2006, 5:10 pm

The story is told of two famous FFB men, one of them from a Yekke Yeshiva used to write poems on the inside cover of his Gemara and the other with a brilliant mind who learnt in a Chassidishe Yeshiva found the emotional approach distasteful (or something like that). They had both lost out on learning Torah in an atmosphere that suited their talents and tendencies.

momof6

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 9:26 am

This problem is as old as Avraham and Yishmoel, Yitzchok and Eisav. We all have a Yetzer Hara and Bechira Chofshis (free choice) We all need to daven alot for our own kids, Study

try our best to be good role models, be diligent about kashrus, expose our children as little as possible to "hollyweird"and ask for advice and direction from the right people.
May we all be Zoche to raise wonderful Yiddishe Kinder, who make us proud. I hope my children rebel by becoming more religious!

amother

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 12:30 pm

Hannah! wrote:

These are people who are throwing away the only way of life they ever knew!

"THROWING AWAY"??
How about - escaping?

You know what makes me really mad?
How are all of you SO sure that the ONLY right way, is YOUR way, or the orthodox way.
How can you be SO SURE???

What if someone misunderstood, and what G-d actually meant is for people to live as good human beings, and pray etc, without getting all tied in knots over little details like carrying your key on Shabbos (for example).

amother

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 12:39 pm

Motek wrote:

How is this thread different from the "at risk factors" thread in the Chinuch section?

the answer to your question Hannah, in the experience of many people who work with dropouts is that the reason is unhappy relationships at home

and more than that Mazel. (Many homes have a disgruntled, hard to please child). Som of these children display their uneasiness by leaving frumkeit, others stay frum and display hundreds of other social maladies! If we were to put the blame all on parents, we'd be discouraging P'RU U'RVU.

anon

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 12:45 pm

Motek wrote:

the answer to your question Hannah, in the experience of many people who work with dropouts is that the reason is unhappy relationships at home

Never say "never". And never say "always". Unhappy relationships at home is not THE cause of dropouts. Sometimes it can cause kids to go off the derech, and sometimes it's the result of kids going off the derech. Generally, if a teenager who comes from a nice frum aidle home gets involved in behaviors of which the parents strongly disapprove, then the result will likely be friction between parents and child. That doesn't mean that the friction came first, and THEN the child went off.

So no, unhappy relationships is not always THE reason.

Motek

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 5:03 pm

anon - you quote my post in which I did not use the words "never" or "always". I repeat, in the experience of many people who work with dropouts, the reason is unhappy relationships at home. See the thread on "at risk" for direct quotes from rabbis and therapists.

amother wrote:

If we were to put the blame all on parents, we'd be discouraging P'RU U'RVU.

Or encouraging better chinuch and relationships in the home.

amother

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 6:21 pm

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

If we were to put the blame all on parents, we'd be discouraging P'RU U'RVU.

Or encouraging better chinuch and relationships in the home.

In the case of Kids at Risk, it's Monday morning quarterbacking. Being that the Torah has all the secrets of successful psycology, and everything else, Halvei we'd find the answer to what to do when the problem already exists.

anon

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 7:05 pm

Motek wrote:

the answer to your question Hannah, in the experience of many people who work with dropouts is that the reason is unhappy relationships at home

Motek, I took the word "the" to mean "always", since "the" implies that there isn't another reason.

It would be more appropriate to say that the reason is often unhappy relationships in the home. To say its "the" reason would be inaccurately accusing all parents of improper child-raising.

amother

Sat, Dec 09 2006, 7:43 pm

Motek wrote:

How is this thread different from the "at risk factors" thread in the Chinuch section?

in the experience of many people who work with dropouts is that the reason is unhappy relationships at home

How does that piece of information help in any way, shape or form, those that already have that problem?

It's like telling Lo Aleinu suffering, dieing cancer patients, NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH- IF YOU'D HAVE EATEN HEALTHY! Studies show that those that ate 4-6 servings of vegetables are less prone to cancer- What a Nechama to them! YIPPEE.

Tefila

Sat, Dec 09 2006, 9:26 pm

Are we any better then our avos Yitzchak and Rifka shock

Who gave birth to a Yaakov and a Eisav!!. We try our very best yes, to give a child a warm home with the right haskafas and loving them (unconditionally)incl trying to give them the security of a loving home. But at the end of the day it is Hashem who decides. ANd since a child turns bar and bas mitzvah and then officialy becomes responsible for his or her actions , then it is no more the responsibility of the parent........

Motek

Sat, Dec 09 2006, 10:25 pm

anon - the Chinuch forum

amother - if you read the posts in that thread you will see that one of them, from a frum therapist says:

Quote:

Even if it was true that some frum children become rebellious without the home being a major contributing factor (although I have never actually seen such a case in the many conferences etc. I have attended over the years), no one would deny that in the vast majority of cases this is not the case. Are we not contributing to the persistence of this tragic problem in our community by denying this reality?

... Should our concern for parents' feelings prevent us from publicizing the well established risk factors for teen rebelliousness? ... this seems to me to be a clear example of misplaced and misguided rachmanus.

When I meet parents of rebellious children, I am, of course, empathetic to their pain and suffering. But I also point out to them those aspects of their relationship with their child, that have likely contributed to the problem. I also suggest to them that although this information may be painful for them to acknowledge, it can also be a source of hope.

By realizing that the problem does not strike at random, but rather has a cause, it is within their power to significantly alleviate the problem. Parents who make a serious attempt at improving their relationship with their rebellious child often see dramatic improvement in their child's condition.

I have often been 'admonished' by these parents and children for not making this information known to the community, to challenge the belief that there is an 'epidemic' out there striking families at random and that parents are powerless to prevent or alleviate this problem.