Ask a Rav (threads merged)

IndyMom

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 6:25 pm

I was just wondering...

I have a friend who is very frum. She considers herself modern orthodox becuase she actually looks up all the sources on halachic questions herself. She says that there is no need to ask a Rav every single shaila in today's age becuase the sources that the Rav is using are so accessible to everyone. She does ask Rabbiem certain questions when she finds that all the opinions she finds don't exactly fit her situation. She just doesn't believe in asking the Rav every single issue at hand, especially not hashkafa issues which she can really research for herself.

Now I know on this forum I keep hearing women say things like "asking a rav is the first thing a frum woman should do" and I just want to know why we say that? I am not sure I agree with what my friend is doing- but she is very intellegent and capable of higher learning. She is really very very frum too. Are there other Modern Orthodox women on this website that share my friend's opinion?

just wondering...

gryp

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 7:47 pm

a Rav is not someone who knows where and how to find the answers in the books!!!
a Rav has semicha and has gone through years and years of learning hundreds of different topics and not just in the shulchan aruch!
a Rav most usually has experience in people turning to him besides the knowledge that he has.
a Rav can pasken shailos, a woman cannot! There is no such thing as a woman Rav.
your friend thinks she can be a Rav for herself? shock

I know this is common amongst the modern orthodox especially the more learned ones think they can pasken, but guess what???!!! many many of us know how to read the halachos in the sfarim but that doesnt mean we can pasken shailos.

daisy

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 8:19 pm

I think it depends for what and it is not necessarily so terrible. For Niddah color shailos, obviously this requires training, but I think there are some issues that can be looked up at the source and it's OK (e.g. kashrus issues). I personally am not that learned, however, my husband often researches things at the source. If something is not clear to him, he will ask someone more learned about it. In fact, he has been learning hilchos Niddah with a chavrusa so that he will have more tools to understanding the various issues.

hisorerus

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 8:21 pm

A Psak is more than just "what it says in Shulchan Aruch." A Rov's Psak has the Torah-granted authority and power to CHANGE Halacha in a sense. IOW, if a Rov says it's Kosher, it's Kosher. No questions. Even if he "made a mistake."

Yael

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 8:41 pm

there is nothing wrong with looking up answers to questions yourself, AS LONG AS you know the difference between a regular question. and a shaila! a lot of times we ask a rav for questions like kahrus that if I were to choose and learn the whole topic I would also know the answer, but dont choose to learn it (or I'm not capable of it). but we also need to know in what cases a rav MUST be consulted b/c the situation is not so black and white.
perhaps we can compile a list of situations of shailos that a rav MUST be consulted for.

IndyMom

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 8:42 pm

I wish there was a compelling way to tell my friend all this... I am really not thrilled about her paskining things for herself, adn even less thrilled when she tells other people what they are and aren't allowed to do.

stem

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 8:53 pm

When we used to learn Halacha in high school and Seminary, our teachers always stressed that the whole point of our learning the Halachos is so we know WHEN we have to ask a Shaila. If we didn't learn the Halachos we might not even realize that there is a question in certain situations.

rydys

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 10:47 pm

On Shabbos, I was exhausted and when I went to take the soup off the stove while talking to someone I accidentally took off the cholent. I know that the halacha says that in order to return the food to the blech it has to still be too hot to touch and you have to have had intention to return it and not put it down. I know that b'dieved if it is still too hot to touch and you either had intention to return it or did not let go of it (even if you put it down) you can return it. I assumed that lunch was ruined, but sent someone to ask a rov anyway.

Surprise! I was allowed to return it to the blech! This was not due to a loophole, this was due to the rov knowing more than just what was written in the seforim (hence the term "torah shebaal peh").

There are many cases where the rabonim know more than what is written in the seforim. They also know how and when to apply what is in the seforim.

There is a story of a man who wrote on his job application that he got a degree from Harvard. The interviewer asked him a few questions and realized that the man had never actually been to Harvard. The man's response was that his roommate was a Harvard grad and this man read all of his friend's books.

Book knowledge is not the same as experience.

deedee

Wed, Apr 13 2005, 11:21 pm

Quote:

There is a story of a man who wrote on his job application that he got a degree from Harvard. The interviewer asked him a few questions and realized that the man had never actually been to Harvard. The man's response was that his roommate was a Harvard grad and this man read all of his friend's books.

great analogy!

hadasa

Thu, Apr 14 2005, 2:21 am

some food for thought:

1. I once heard a speech by R' Mordechai Eliyahu, where he said that although the daughters of Tzlafchad were "Tzidkaniyot, Chachmaniyot and Lamdaniyot" (righteous, clever and learned), when they had a Shaaloh, they went to the Rav!

2. A lesson can be taken from this week's Parshah, that even though the homeowner can be much more learned than the Cohen, only the Cohen has the spiritual power to be Metaher or Metame the Nega. As Hisorerus mentioned, the Rav's Psak actually establishes the spiritual reality.

In your friend's case, I don't understand the logic of

Quote:

especially not hashkafa issues which she can really research for herself.

I would accept that you can often look up on your own a simple question in Shabbos or Kashrus, in books like Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchasa, but I would think that Hashkafah issues is precisely where you need a Rav even more.

Thu, Apr 14 2005, 8:22 pm

all posts by mp are being deleted. Sorry if this thread makes no sense. Time to stop quoting her while simulataneously editing what she writes.

Last edited by mp on Thu, May 12 2005, 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

IndyMom

Thu, Apr 14 2005, 8:29 pm

mp wrote:

I think most people choose a rav based on their own and their family's hashkafa

How does one go about finding a rav that matches their hashkafa? I mean it's not like we go on shidduch dates with them. Is it the husband's responsibility? And if he hasn't found one, does the wife need to find one?

hadasa

Fri, Apr 15 2005, 1:57 am

mp - unless I have my facts wrong, you have confused two issues: a toen/toenet and a bodeket. In NEITHER of these issues does a woman have the right to Pasken! A toen is like a lawyer in a Beis Din, he brings his client's justifications according to Halacha, and the Rav weighs both side's considerations before giving his Psak.
A bodeket's job is mainly to check if a woman has a wound which may be causing spotting. Once she has the facts, she can tell a Rav, who will then decide if the spotting can be considered not to have originated in the womb.

Tefila

Fri, Apr 15 2005, 9:13 am

yael

Quote:

but we also need to know in what cases a rav MUST be consulted b/c the situation is not so black and white.

and
Stem

Quote:

If we didn't learn the Halachos we might not even realize that there is a question in certain situations.

and
RG

Quote:

many many of us know how to read the halachos in the sfarim but that doesnt mean we can pasken shailos.

and
momof3boys

Quote:

Often we ask a Rav, 'cause he knows the loop holes

That summarizes it all I think... no?

Fri, Apr 15 2005, 6:47 pm

all posts by mp are being deleted. Sorry if this thread makes no sense. Time to stop quoting her while simulataneously editing what she writes. Not fair.

Last edited by mp on Thu, May 12 2005, 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rivka

Sun, Apr 17 2005, 6:51 am

I can understand a woman deciding for herself if her stain is niddah or not because before hand she went to the rov for the same type of stain and he said she isn't niddah becuase the stain was such and such a colour.
Sometimes I have often seen a stain I myself would have thought I was niddah but went to ask the dayan and he said I was ok.
I think to ask a rav is to make your life easier, otherwise we will end up like those people who only went according to the written torah and believed "an eye for an eye" literally meant that.
I don't see why on shabbos you would need to run to the rav about something that is plainly written in hilchos shabbos book.
But I always ask when it comes to kashrus because that to me is very confusing even if you know the basics there are always loopholes and for that I am greatful I can just call my father-in-law up and ask him.
If you are happy simply looking it up in shulchan oruch then fine, but I think Indymom she should stop telling others what they are and are not allowed to do.