Unvaccinated- Sad stories of kids getting sick

yksraya

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:29 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Natural Parenting encompasses SO much more than vaccination.
Do you seriously think it's harming children to cloth diaper? To breastfeed? To babywear?

Every natural parenter is different and chooses what she believes to be the truth for her family and situation. No need to bash because someone thinks differently than you. The only time I get worried is when people do things without thinking and learning. If the choices they make are informed, I applaud that. Even if the conclusion is different than something I myself might have made.

some ppl do bash even in the safe haven. when someone chooses not to vax there are reasons to it and it's rude to bash others lifestyle especially when questions are being asked in a safe haven meant for other ppl in similar lifestyle to answer.

ElTam

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:32 pm

As long as we have outbreaks of relatively mild diseases, the anti-vaxers will be among us. Measles is treatable, mumps, whooping cough, etc. Yes, there are deaths, but they are rare.

But sooner or later, our herd immunity will drop enough that we will have an outbreak of something truly horrifying and not amenable to treatment with modern medicine. Chas v'shalom, we will see something like the severe form of tetanus, which kills about 60,000 newborns worldwide (in places where vaccination is not available) or polio come back in this country, and then the non-vaxers will be beating down their doctor's door.

I saw it it in my child's school. Several kids in the school were from non-vaxing families b'shita, not for any real health reason. One kid in the school got mumps and the parents EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE KIDS were running to the doctor to get their kid vaccinated for mumps. And you know, before that happened, they sounded just like the anti-vaxers on this board, with the exact same arguments.

My big problem is that I have a child who should not get measles vaccine or and absolutely cannot have flu vaccines for health reasons. (I have related this before, so sorry if you've heard it.) I made the choice to have my child receive the measles vaccine, which because he has an allergy, had to be administered in a facility that could deal with the risk of him going into shock from the reaction. (And no, insurance didn't cover that, so that was a nice big bill we had to pay out of pocket.) But, that was a controlled risk. The risk of him getting measles when he was already failure to thrive and had been hospitalized for viruses that were mild in the rest of the family. E.g., we had colds, in him it turned into RSV, five days in the hospital, in the ER for hours because his breathing was so compromised he wasn't stable enough to admit to the hospital (and that came on so fast, he woke up coughing. I called and got a noon appointment at the pediatrician. By 3 p.m. we were in the ER, and he was grey and struggling to breathe). The whole family had a stomach virus that was 24 hours and gone. When my littlest one got it he was in the hospital on an IV in danger of having seizures from dehydration and low blood sugar, etc. I don't even want to think what measles would do to him. If we weren't constantly having measles outbreaks in the frum community, I could have skipped that vaccine. But, because more and more frum parents are choosing not to vaccinate, my frum doctor and my husband and I decided to mitigate the risk to my child.

We are also close to two children who are immuno-compromised. I think it is wrong for parents of healthy kids to endanger the lives of children who have already suffered numerous hospitalizations, procedures, pain, and suffering. Why should they have to live in more terror than they already do for their child's health? Cancer lo aleinu wasn't enough? Now they have to worry about their child who has been through chemo, radiation, etc., being exposed to diseases that should not even be circulating in our community?

As I say, if you have a real reason to vax, that is one thing, but as I said, when I see the anti-vaxers running for the doctor's office the second their little precious one is in danger of catching something, I lose all respect.

Last edited by ElTam on Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

MaBelleVie

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:33 pm

yksraya wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

ahem. agreed.

yksraya

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:39 pm

ElTam wrote:

sorry to inform you but the doctors where packed with kids coming for booster shots. if they have to take a booster shot cause their vaccinated friend or sister got the mumps what was the point in taking the shot in the first place? it didn't help anyway as a booster shot was required and to clue you in=the booster shot is not effective either. besides of the fact that a vaccinated kid, who traveled abroad brought the mumps into the US.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:44 pm

yksraya wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I agree, but am unsure of what this had to do with my post?

flowerpower

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 10:52 pm

amother wrote:

Narrow minded = people only believing and knowing what they see and what is fed to them, they don't have a broader view on things, and don't bother to be more educated!

Its unbelievable how narrow minded people are, believing in only the medical field! No one has the right to say anything against not being vaccinated or anything in the medical field, for that matter, before being educated in the non-medical field, and learning the truth!

People can NOT just decide not to vaccinate cause its unhealthy (which if only u would know how) they have to make sure the body is healthy enough to NOT to get those illnesses! Hashem made A persons body to be able to fight illness, and if it can't, there's a problem! Giving kids vaccines does NOT accomplish that! What we have in our foods and air now a days is "poisoning" our kids, all those junk foods, preservatives....etc... ! by not giving them the vitamins and nutrients they need, their bodys immunity is so low they can't fight illness, we need to strengthen their immunity, by giving them what they're missing! If people would be so on top of their health, the natural way, they wouldn't need those vaccines, AND won't get sick, be"h!

Bottom line: learn your facts before believing those dr's who don't know anything more than they have learned in their books! Dr's are made to treat an illness when its here, (that's all they know how to do) staying healthy is our obligation! And remember THEY will never be able to "get rid" of illness!

Perhaps the medical vaxing group has gone a drop to far pushing every vaccine that might not be fatal but I am greatful to them. Baruch hashem we don't need to worry about polio, etc... my pediatrition said that in his days they were scared to go in a public pool because the disease was contagious. Regarding food and all the poison that is in there, every mother should educate herself and know what is good and what is bad. They now have a much bigger variety of healthy things in the supermarkets to chose from. You can be as much as you want on top of your kids but sometimes a little help from the medical field is needed. Natural is not always best. Herbal stuff sometimes makes the situation worse, not better. Organic is sometimes garbage! Dr.s are messengers of hashem!!!

amother

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 11:22 pm

ElTam wrote:

We are also close to two children who are immuno-compromised. I think it is wrong for parents of healthy kids to endanger the lives of children who have already suffered numerous hospitalizations, procedures, pain, and suffering. Why should they have to live in more terror than they already do for their child's health? Cancer lo aleinu wasn't enough? Now they have to worry about their child who has been through chemo, radiation, etc., being exposed to diseases that should not even be circulating in our community?

I am so so so sick of this inane argument. I do not discuss a thing with non-vaxers since they typically ignore all accepted medical research and findings, in favor of off-beat "infotainment".

Major fraud found in the favorite vax/autism research? No problemo. Here is some other equally sound study.

I have posted this many times, and I won't be back to this thread so I won't read a single response. My feelings and my blood pressure simpley cannot handle it.

I am severely immuno-deficient. It is a birth defect, given to me by Hashem. Why? Who the heck knows. But thanks to non-vaxers, I cannot go to shuls, malls, schools, people's homes, or participate in most normal community-life events.

It is not ONLY because of vaccinations but that is a major factor. Vaccinations do not work in my system. I am not going to waste my finger-effort even explaining it because I know the non-vaxers will just brush it off and continue on.

I feel the same way about ppl who send their kids to school or shlep them around when they are sick because they "have no choice". Do you go to work when you are sick? Thanks, I appreciate it more than most.

Do you not give your kid antibiotics for infections because they are "overused"? Thanks again. Appreciate that too.

Shower once a month? Not wash your hands when you should WITH soap? Thanks.

I could go on and on but it is totally pointless. Rolling Eyes

Know what the hospital Rabbi told me last time I was crying from depression and frustration? Yes, Hashem gave me this defect in my biology but He did so knowing that there were accessible and well-known ways to prevent me from picking up diseases carried by other people. The Rabbi went on to tell me "Never in a million years did Hashem think His people would throw that back in His face and say No Thanks."

Wrap yourself tightly in your arguments and take comfort in Being Right.

I am facing another year of near isolation. Thanks.

Really, save your replies and arguments. I probably won't bother reading them and if I do, I already know what they will say.

Chana Miriam S

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 11:24 pm

Hi, My name is Chana Miriam and I am a long term breastfeeder (exclusively for at least six months,) infant co sleeper and vaccination spacer.

Wanted to be a natural birther, but in fact am one of those women who just would have died in childbirth, but for my C-Sections.

I had my babies in the hospital because I personally knew someone who had a birth accident and was left with a baby with the ability to breathe and nothing else.

I know someone ( a doctor- who had a patient who rolled over on her sleeping baby and suffocated it.) I was at his house when he came home crying about it because he had not had a problem with co sleeping before that.

I am crunchy granola enough to have been a La Leche League Leader, but not so crunchy that I was able to be a La Leche League Leader (since you have to be accepting of others and their decisions, even when you disagree with them.

I agree that sometimes children and adults have bad reactions to vaccinations. sometimes they don't.

re shingles, my father had a horrible case of them sixty years after he had chicken pox. He was never vaccinated for them. Children die of chicken pox related complications which is why people vaccinate their kids. One of my kids had the actual pox. He is scarred. The other had 2 vaccines. She is not. Stuff happens.

Most of us will never know anyone who had polio or small pox. These are diseases that were rampant in the past. Adolescents in otherwise good health died sudden deaths from H1N1 because they were not vaccinated. SARS was a nightmare. These people did not die because they don't eat organic.

Sergei Grinkov died at something like 28 years old of a heart attack. Marathon runners die in almost every marathon that is held. A few weeks ago an organic eating vegan extreme marathoner died of a heart attack on a run in the wilderness. I saw it on CNN. Stuff happens.

I find it shocking that amother thinks for even a minute that anyone would listen to her. She appears not to be able to communcate very well with others, has no ability to back up her statements with any intelligence and is rude and obnoxious to boot.

Natural Birth lady, you would be more credible if you offered some proof of your statements. Your counter intuititive statement about vaccinated people being the carriers of pertussis seems to border on the ridiculous, so if you do know where on earth someone came up with convincing proof of that, you should include it. Otherwise you look as ridiculous as amother.

And, unless you know Dr. Indich personally, which I do, I suggest you not assume he is just some idiot who learned in books and doesn't know anything useful. He is one of the hardest working and diligent doctors on the planet. YOU have no right to disparage him because he shared his own experience.

ElTam

Wed, Apr 18 2012, 11:33 pm

yksraya wrote:

Quote:

The kid who got the mumps was not vaxed. The vaxed parents weren't worried. It was the parents who said, "Oh, no, vaxing is too dangerous" who all got their kids vaxed for mumps inside of a week once it was THEIR child in danger instead of someone else's.

groisamomma

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 12:26 am

ElTam wrote:

yksraya wrote:

Quote:

Utter nerve. And selfish, too. That about sums up my opinion of non-vaxers.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 9:07 am

Chana Miriam, am I Natural Birth lady?

If so, I'm not sure why you're taking so much offense at the truth of my statement. I said nothing pro or against vaccination. All I did was state the real fact that even the vaccinated population can be CARRIERS of a disease, even if they themselves don't get ill (or seriously ill) from it. We harbor the bacteria just by breathing it from the air into our noses. If the vaccination works, we hopefully don't get sick from it. But that does not detract from the reality that the vaccinated population still can transmit the bacteria. There is nothing counter intuitive about what I said. I did not say that only vaccinated people transmit the disease, but rather that the majority of transmission is via the vaccinated population, which makes total sense when you consider most of the population is vaccinated.

I actually grew up with the Indiches for a few years. I said nothing -- nothing at all -- disparaging his intelligence.

I was just presenting another fact so people can be truly informed. That's my only goal. Make educated decisions.

yksraya

Thu, Apr 19 2012, 10:12 am

ElTam wrote:

yksraya wrote:

Quote:

I was at the ped with my baby for a well visit at the time of the mumps outbreak and I saw a mother with a vaxed kid at the dr. the kid had mumps and the mother asks dr. "I have other kids home, all of them were already vaxed and I'm afraid they too can get the mumps" dr. said: "bring them all in today, they need booster shots". and BTW the kid who first got the mumps was vaxed.