Middle name of one child, first name of another?

amother

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:25 pm

sky wrote:

Frenchfry wrote:

Wow. I could have written this thread, only dd is 7, and yes, the second name got dropped. I've had 2 girls since, each time I wanted to use dd's beautiful 2nd name. No one really took me seriously. (Sigh)

Make sure it doesn't really get dropped and it is used sometimes. Otherwise it can be a question on her kesuba.

I had this issue - the rav I asked told me that it was my choice to write it or not, and I did.

years later, it again became a question for my get. since nobody ever calls me that and I only use it for kvitelach, not to sign a check, they ruled that it needn't be added on the get.

several of my children have middle names that aren't almost ever used - I try to make a point of using it on occasion - if it's so important to you, why don't at least you use it all the time?

amother

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:31 pm

Frenchfry wrote:

No one really took me seriously (Sigh)

What do you mean noone took you seriously? Do you mean just your DH?

My DH was in favour of JUST giving the name Rochel and now I can see he was right. Also, all through the pregnancy we were planning on giving just one name but in my post partum stupor I insisted on two.

For the last few weeks of the pregnancy we were deciding between Sarah and another name. Rochel was on our list a few months before but we both preferred other names at the time. At the last moment it because clear that we could not use the other name we had been considering, but we were not sure about Sarah either so we looked back at some of the other names on our list. We had a shaila on the name Rochel I was almost certain the Rav would say no, making the decision to go with Sarah easier but of course he said the name was OK. I didn't find out what he had said until just before we had to give the name though so I had no time to think about it. A couple of hours later I knew we should have called her Rochel.

Dandelion1

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:34 pm

I understand that you prefer each name separately, but if that is not possible at this point, I feel that it is possible to make people call her by both names, if that is what you want. Keep doing it yourself. Keep correcting. B'ah teach her that way. If it really means a lot to you it can be done, but now, early, and commitedly.

I once had a neighbor who named her dd "Eden". I called her Eh-den (I guess the hebrew way) but apparently it was pronounced Ee-den. Well, mom fixed a look that could kill on me said "You mean Ee-den?" Apparently she was having some issues with this pronounciation and was having to repeat this frequently. I might have slipped up once or twice just out of what I was used to but eventually it stuck.

I would even say directly to "frequent offenders" something like "I notice that I tell you her name is Sarah Rachel but you keep calling her only Sarah. Is there a reason for that?" And if someone has the chutzpah to give you some kind of answer you could play on their names, or their childrens' names, ie, "well, your dd's name is Yocheved. Mind if I call her Yoch?" Again, if it is very important to you, hold strong. No one has the right to tell you otherwise.

RachelEve14

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:35 pm

amother wrote:

The other issue is that I prefer the names Sarah and Rochel to the name Sarah Rochel.

I am also not sure that people will use both names if I continue to push it because there is one other couple here who gave their 3yo daughter two names and NOONE uses both despite the parents insisting that both names must be used, even the two grandmothers use only the first name. Also, the dad is called Avraham but many people call him Avi, despite him correcting them every time. I guess people here just do what they want!

Additionally, my family are quite secular and everyone who has two names only goes by the first one. I have already sent emails and spoken to several family members about the name, spelling out that our daughter's name is Sarah Rochel, not Sarah but it hasn't made any difference, even when I've corrected them after getting it wrong again. I guess some people just find the name too long so just call her Sarah in the same way they might call Benyamin Ben.

My family is not frum either. They still try every so often to just use the first name (such as once in 6 months I will get an "how's Avi" and I still correct the same way, and then wait the next 6 months for them to try again. You baby is 6 weeks old. People will get it.

spring13

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:38 pm

My DH's younger brothers have this setup: one is XY and the next is YZ. They go by their first names, so its not like people often call them the wrong thing, but honestly, it's pretty weird. I think kids in the same family should have distinct names because they're distinct people, and outsiders mixing up siblings is so common, yet so annoying.

DH's parents have an "excuse" of sorts b/c they picked a name for BIL #2, and then MIL's father passed away - and they didn't find out til then that they'd used his Hebrew name already (they'd thought it was something else). So in the end they called BIL #3 by her father's whole name. But they wouldn't have used Y for BIL #2 if they'd known her father's name ahead of time.

Creating that setup on purpose just doesn't seem like a good idea to me - at the very least, I'd ask a rav about it.

Last edited by spring13 on Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 1:45 pm

Would it be weird to have people call her only Rochel? Or would that be even worse? I guess it is toolate for that anyway.

I do like the name Sarah but at the same time I am starting to hate it because I see it as the name I shouldn't have given my daughter (I had reservations about the name all along.) Again, it is probably hormones but I have cried a few times when I have heard people use the name Sarah.

1Life2Live

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 4:26 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I discovered today I have two chassidishe cousins, sisters, named Chaya Grina and Chaya Ruchel. LOL

That's so interesting. I would've never even thought to name siblings with the same name. I would've thought it wasn't allowed, but I guess, why not? And to think I could've had a whole theme going with my kids...

Isramom8

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 4:55 pm

There's a girl's name DH and I have both always loved. Somehow it was never given to any of our daughters. There was always someone else to name after, or we had a boy. Finally DH said we should give it as a middle name. I thought we should continue to save it, but DH said that enough was enough.

And that was a good thing, because this daughter is 10 and has two younger brothers and no younger sisters. And now I have different women to name after, who don't have that name we love. Our daughter isn't called by her middle name, but in the family we mention it from time to time, and at least we got to give it.

amother

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 5:08 pm

I guess another way I could reconcile the situation would be to find another name I really love and DH agrees with so if I ever have another girl Bezrat Hashem, I can think about giving her that name.

We don't name for relatives so there will not be a scenario where we need to name for someone.

The problem is that I can't imagine not using that name now! I also need to somehow get over the regret of giving the name we did.

amother

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 5:13 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

Why did you give it as a middle name? You had someone to name after when you had that baby? Why did you decide to call your DD by her first name only or did it just happen that way?

amother

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 6:12 pm

I hope I am understanding your post. Between the two names, it seems you'd rather at this point, call your child, Rachel. Granted, I don't know your haskafa, but from mine, why is that a problem? There are many children who have first names, and in their cases, the name was given to honor someone, or in memory of someone, but they go by their middle name. My grandson is called by his middle name. I know a family that called their daughter one name for quite awhile, and then decided to use the middle name. If that will make you happy, I don't see why that is a problem.

sky

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 7:43 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Actually, if she's 3 weeks old and no one has called her Rochel, there may be halachic leeway to say it's not her name. For girls, the name goes by what she's called by. I would ask now instead of waiting till later, as there is more room to change a name this early on.

yes, you can speak to a rav and maybe drop the name as if it was never there (hence the problem of not using a name and 'accidentally' losing it).

On a personal note, I also had doubts about the name I gave one of my children. I was choosing between 2 very similar names because I didn't know what the original name was. In the 11th hour I made my choice. And regretted it. It took me about 2 months to get over it. but now the name is perfect. I hope you come to that feeling to.

Or you can just call her Rochel, at this point I don't think it is a problem at all. Or create a nickname that is a combination of the 2.

I've seen that a name is meant to be, I didn't name any of my children what I had planned on before they were born. It always changed for some reason or another. It could just be the name was meant to be.

apple24

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 9:05 pm

We have a son with 2 names and we use the second name. I know quite a few people who have done that as well, bib rabbanim included. If you love the name Rochel, call her Rochel, you don't have to change her name to do that....

rachelbg

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 9:33 pm

My parents gave me 2 names, "Sarah Rochel". They wanted me to be called "Sarah." At OVER 3 MONTHS they decided to call me exclusively "Rochel."

And I still am today, Rochel.

(BTW, my dc is a double-namer and it took a lot of reminding/informing at the beginning, but even the non-frum relatives have got it by now.)

CatLady

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 9:38 pm

I know plenty of people who are known by their middle name, and in fact this caused much laughter in my family when a relative who uses his middle name had his full name read out under the chuppah and the kallah's side were all "Who's Yitzchak? I thought Malka was marrying Mendel". (Obviously, they didn't take note of what was written on the invitation! Wink

)

The only cases of siblings having the same name that come to mind are celebrities like George Foreman, Michael Jackson, and from Newhart, Larry, Darryl and Darryl. I am sure you don't want your DDs to be in that category! So call your DD Rochel, save the "Sarah Rochel" for official paperwork and call your next child by another equally lovely name.

amother

Wed, Apr 25 2012, 9:55 pm

I know a family where this was done. The middle name of the older son was the first name of another son, and neither went by his full name.

Someone later pointed out this it could be problematic for two brothers to have the same name (even if full names were different), so they asked R' Kanievsky. He told the younger guy to change his name and only go by his middle name from then on.

Best to ask a shaila.

amother

Thu, Apr 26 2012, 2:54 pm

Supposing I ask a shaila and am allowed to call her Sarah instead of Sarah Rochel ... it would still be weird to call another child Rochel wouldn't it? Even if it is not the middle name of the first daughter anymore. I mean, even though no one has ever called her Sarah Rochel, people may still remember that that is what we originally called her.

Someone mentioned that it would not be as bad if both children were named for relatives. eg grandmothers called Sarah Rochel and Rochel Leah, but I think it would be even more strange if both names of both children were actually used instead of one being known as just Sarah and the other as just Rochel.

After talking to my Mom it turns out that she has cousins, 2 brothers called Jacob Alexander (known as Jacob) and Alexander Jacob (known as Alex). The father was called Alexander Jacob (known as Jack) so the first brother was named for him but with the names reversed. The father passed away when the mother was 8 months pregnant with the second brother so when he was born she named him directly after his father.