how to come to terms with 13 y/o DD who wont help out!

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 3:56 pm

spring13 wrote:

"Not being the type that likes to help" has ZERO to do with whether or not she should be expected to do so. She's part of the family, so she contributes, end of story. And she is by FAR old enough to do things around the house. Don't think that this is a problem with your attitude - it's a problem with hers, and not one you should have to put up with.

I agree with people who suggested making a chore list, and assigning her the same few jobs every week. Give every kid 2 chores that are theirs alone, and make a chart to keep track of it all. Call a family meeting to explain the new setup, maybe to let the kids help decide who does what (maybe have them pick things out of a hat?), so they all know exactly what's expected. If the job chart is a whole-family thing, it'll be harder for her to weasel out of it or get you to let someone else take over for her. If she whines, ignore it, just remind her calmly that X is her responsibility and you expect it to be done. Talk to DH and plan some consequences for kids who don't do their jobs - and rewards for those who do them consistently without complaining.

Oh, and get one of these so she can slice her own apples.

OP here- so impressed with your savviness to have me click on the word there and be directed to the apple slicer. My mother has it, it is helpful and I should get one. In any case my kids have chores that they do based on their ages and abilities for the most part. Right now I need some extra impromptu help like when I really can't mamge cus I don't feel well. I don't want to force her because I didn't enjoy all the hard work I did as a teenageer for my younger sibs cuz I had to! So I usually ask her and she is most of the time not eager or willing ("maybe later"). It's her personality that I'm at odds with rigth now.

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 4:02 pm

amother wrote:

Definitely a chore list, but by 13, if you haven't yet expected things from her, it's going to be more challenging. My 13 yr old dd is the oldest and has been taking care of my now 2 yr old since she was a baby (as needed, of course). She is capable of doing all of the following (and does them in a rotation):

-washing dishes
-cleaning LR floor (straightening and vacuuming)
-putting dishes away
-cleaning the bathroom (all of my kids do this - boys and girls - toilets and tubs - got the boys to stop pishing on the floor)
-empty garbage
-mop kitchen floor
-watch her younger sibling or babysit for a neighbors children
-make noodles or macaroni and cheese, rice, baked ziti, bakes cookies & cakes
-laundry (hers or everyones - washing, drying and folding)
OP here- count your blessings!!!!!! My daughter has a friend like your yours. Her mother never even has to cook for shabbos, she does it all by herself. My daughter has gone over there but it doesn't help. She knows its not her thing. She can watch her siblings play outside, set up shabbos candles, set the table, serve, dress her sister and do her hair, put away her and her sister's laundry...But when asked for more... it doesn't work.
I realize I am very lucky that she does all this, and that she wants to (most of the time). But everyone feels they have a chaylek in this house, no one does it alone, and everyone has jobs, even my 2 year old. It's always been like that.

That said, she gets more privileges than the younger kids because she helps more. I let her stay up later during the week, and sometimes we just have Mom/DD shmoozing time, which I think she likes better than anything else. Also, we often do chores together as a family, so no one feels they are "working too hard."

I would sit and have a long talk with her and tell her what's expected and then keep a chart or something with everyone's jobs on it. I have one son who likes doing the "garbage run," and another who likes cleaning bathroom counters. Everyone gets a job they like, and then one they don't so much like but need to learn how to do.

My mother never taught me how to clean a house or how to cook (she didn't know either), so I had to learn as a grown up, and I'm determined that should not happen to my children.

Anon only b/c of personal info.

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 4:07 pm

StrongIma wrote:

well, I do have kids this age and I know how difficult it can be. some ideas that may (or may not) help:

* keep it simple and direct - "can you help me for 20 minutes before you xyz (ie go shopping with friends, study for your test, etc.)"
* "if you need x from me, it will make it much easier if you do y"
* grin and bear it and wait for her to wake up and actually (gasp) offer to help. yes, it can happen - but only after you've swallowed your anger and taken a real interest in her life.

Hug

remember - they do grow up iyh - the bad news is that she may become very helpful only after she's moved out and discovered for herself what it means to keep house. (or she mqy come home to bask in your comfort and supportiveness. *sigh*)

OP here again
Thanks. You seem very supportive. Maybe I can pm you?

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 4:11 pm

... Or I always heard this - "You really should help out more, all the girls your age help their parents".

I became very resentful of not being "good enough" or always being complained to. Therefore, I helped as absolutely little as possible.

Usually, when a child in her teens is asking for assistance regarding easy, simple things, like slicing an apple, it's more a request for attention, etc.

Perhaps this is going on with your daughter as well. I am not saying this is the case, just suggesting an alternative view.[/quote]
OP here- perhaps this is going on here because I have def told her that girls her age do a lot more even knowing it was the wrong thing to say (couldn't help myself!!!). She doesn't like to do things like cut her own apple because she doesn't want to wash it and get her hands wet then have to dry it and take out a knife to cut... It's so much easier to just ask mommy to do it and come downstairs at the latest possible time to catch the bus.

wispalover

Thu, May 03 2012, 4:23 pm

Perhaps you are expecting too much from a 13 y.o girl with presumably other interests aside from helping you manage YOUR house.
I grew up in a house with other siblings and while we all helped, we had mammoth amounts of homework, we had social lives and we wanted our own times to relax. I remember how we had turns to watch the youngest one on Motzas'h so my parents could go out and we all really resented it- after all, the 'baby' was my parents kid, not mine, so why should my life be put on hold so they could enjoy theirs?

My BFF's mom always did everything herself, even though she only had daughters. Her mantra was that it was her house, she decided to have kids and she didnt want them to be slaves for what she decided. They helped because they wanted to, not because they were forced and I was *super* jealous that she had a mom who didnt ask anything of her.

Point is, yes she should be grateful and show more appreciation and you would like her to do that by helping, but realistically you are the one who is pregnant (and presumably did not ask her permission before becoming so), it is your house and ultimately it is all your responsibility and if your 13 y.o is not interested, is it really worth your time and patience to fight with her?

granolamom

Thu, May 03 2012, 5:37 pm

amother wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Make a list of age appropriate household chores and ask her to pick a certain amount (based on how much time she has).

Explain to her that as she gets older, she gets more freedom and more responsibility. If she can't handle the responsibility, then she can't go out to her friends unsupervised. Since you are pregnant, tired and busy, that probably won't be too often.

OP here (what does OP stand for?)
she helps out with her regular chores (she has a few) but there's a great deal of impromptu tasks that come up and I can't list them before they happen. Last erev shabbos I was so nauseous that I couldn't make the chopped meat into meatballs so I asked her to do it. She said maybe later. She has done this before but wasn't in the mood. As far as more freedom I guess I'm not so ready to give her more--she doesn't always realize time so well and can stay outside too late without reminders.

Ok, I'm ready for the flaming:

I'm an oldest and I was very helpful, its my nature. that said, your pg is not your dd's problem or responsibility. she needs to contribute, yes. she needs to learn these skills, yes. but how 'giving' she is above and beyond, is not something you can demand. chessed has to come from within, it cannot be forced. your child is not your 'second set of hands' for impromptu tasks. its nice when you have a kid who is willing to be that for you, but imo its too much to demand. ok, to ask, but the asking has to be with the understanding that she has a right to say no (took me decades to learn to say no, I never knew I was allowed to do that)

TranquilityAndPeace

Thu, May 03 2012, 5:42 pm

OP, (which stands for Original Poster), what would happen if you say this: "Sara, please make the meatballs now?"

Your daughter Sara says, "Maybe later"

You say, "Sara, Shabbos is coming, and I'd like you to do this now."

What then? Would she ignore you? Is it acceptable in your home for her to ignore you or disobey you?

Btw, one of my kids would also say, "which fork?" if I ask him to put a fork in a platter. I let him make mistakes. I say, "any fork you choose that's fleishig". Sometimes he chooses the wrong fork, but we manage just fine. Are you letting your daughter make mistakes? Do you criticize every time she chooses 'a wrong fork' so she is now worried that she has to perform perfectly with regard to each task that you ask of her?

I would give her more responsibility. I once learned that 12 year old girls and 13 year old boys should serve all food; parents should sit at the Shabbos table. Obviously, this can't work if you haven't prepared for it. I prepared my 13 year old for this by helping him serve the Shabbos meals a few months before he turned 13. Then I watched as he did it. Now I stay sitting for most of the courses, and he serves. It doesn't sound like your daughter is incapable of that - it will just take you a few weeks to train her.

TranquilityAndPeace

Thu, May 03 2012, 5:45 pm

granolamom wrote:

amother wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

My kids may say, "Is it okay if I do this later" or "I'm really not in the mood, do I have to" or "I'd really rather not, Mommy, I'm very tired, is it okay if I skip it this time" or similar. But they are not permited to just say "no" to a parent.

That goes hand in hand with DH and I making only reasonable requests of them.

Faigy86

Thu, May 03 2012, 5:50 pm

granolamom wrote:

I'm an oldest and I was very helpful, its my nature. that said, your pg is not your dd's problem or responsibility. she needs to contribute, yes. she needs to learn these skills, yes. but how 'giving' she is above and beyond, is not something you can demand. chessed has to come from within, it cannot be forced. your child is not your 'second set of hands' for impromptu tasks.

I agree. She should help and be a normal contributing member of the family, but she should not need to pick up the slack for what you can't do now unless she is 1000% willing and agreeable to that.

(disclaimer: I don't have children that age, but I was also of the oldest and resented that so many responsibilities fell on my shoulders)

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 6:34 pm

A teenagers mother is sick and I want to know what is wrong with a teen helping out. Chesed begins at home and should be taught.

A responsibility of a human being is to help others especially their family in their time of need.

Do some parents take advantage of their teen kids yes. An example would be that a parent does not allow a teen to get together with friends on Shabbos because the parent wants to sleep and not watch their own kids.

A wise parent might see that a specific child is resentful and should try to avoid that.

To the OP, if your pregnancy is hard, I really recommend doing less. For example bake potatoes instead of making potato kugel. Try to not do extras that will cause more work being done. Simple is great too.

I do stand by my statement that there is nothing wrong with kids participating in taking care of the home as they get older. A parents job is not to serve their children, their job is to raise them, support them and take care of them.

emhabanim

Thu, May 03 2012, 6:43 pm

Your daughter is 13 and while she may look huge to you, she really is still a young child in many ways. I have teenagers who are older and they all go through their teenage phases.... usually starting around age 13 or so. Some by nature are more helpful, some less. Even the more helpful ones have gone through a phase where they just weren't so helpful, and then they rebound.

You also need to make sure you aren't asking her things all day long. I found that telling my kids things such as " You want to go to the pizza store with your friends - fine. But, first I need you to give me 20 minutes of your time and have you do either this or that." Giving them choices, a time frame, and a time for themselves makes them less resentful and more helpful as well as a sense of control which is something all teenagers want.

Nowhere in your post do you mention your DH. Your DD did not make the decision to get pregnant, you and your DH did. Maybe he can help out more by doing some cooking for Shabbos Thurs. night or bringing home a few take out kugels on Friday.

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 8:32 pm

chani8 wrote:

It soo has to do with personality, then, because if birth order responsibility isn't enough to get her to help you, then she is just not the type to help. I have one of those, not the oldest, and a boy, so it is much easier to deal with. He will take care of himself a little bit (regarding food mainly), but be totally helpless otherwise, and never help.

I just accept it, decided I am glad I'm not married to him, and find other ways. I do make him take care of all of his own stuff though, even doing his own laundry. But he doesn't have to help others. When he wants to, he can be spontaneously helpful, but to have set obligations, forget it. He fails with those ones. As it is, the laundry issue is very difficult for him to keep up with.

That doesn't help you OP, on a practical level, but maybe you will feel less furious if you realize some people are just very self-absorbed and don't want to help others.

So practically speaking, get hired help asap if you can.

Today I am married to a man who basically can be a slob and completely selfish. No matter if I just had a baby or the place is flying erev Shabbos he won't lift a finger, all thanks to my mil. I really like my mil but she is totally responsible for his behavior that has caused us so many sb problems.

GreenEyes26

Thu, May 03 2012, 8:55 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

granolamom wrote:

amother wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Thanks, T&P. I was going to say the same thing but much more meanly Twisted Evil

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 9:08 pm

wispalover wrote:

But I wasn't asking you to vent about how you grew up, I also had to care for younger siblings all the time and resented it. I asked for help to coach me to be more accepting of this type of daughter. Please read my original post. I didn't ask how can I get her to do more-even though that's what everyone decided to respond.

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 9:25 pm

GreenEyes26 wrote:

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

granolamom wrote:

amother wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Thanks, T&P. I was going to say the same thing but much more meanly Twisted Evil

What's to be mean about???? I asked for help to deal with this in terms of me. Could y'all read the first 2 sentences of my original post? Did I mention anything about this being my dd's problem or responsibility. It's just so much more difficult to deal with right now as I am not dealing with a full deck. I only ask in a way that it can be turned down because I do NOT want to force her to do anything that she doens't willingly wanna do. I just have to deal with her unwillingness to want to do just about anything. Last Friday she was invited to a neighbor who organized some activity and I was happy to let her go all day and of course it was my responsibility to take care of shabbos albeit with no extras. My kids are terrible eaters anyway so no need to cook fancy. Anyway, she has a lazier attitude I guess and doesn't pick up cues to well. She'll never say NO but she might say "later" or ask too many questions so I realize she'd rather not do it. What do y'all think I'm doing? Trying to be a slavedriver?

GreenEyes26

Thu, May 03 2012, 9:27 pm

amother wrote:

GreenEyes26 wrote:

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

granolamom wrote:

amother wrote:

saw50st8 wrote:

Thanks, T&P. I was going to say the same thing but much more meanly Twisted Evil

I'm sorry, OP. I meant I would have said what T&P replied to GranolaMom much more meanly. Not to your post.

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 9:32 pm

wispalover wrote:

My BFF's mom always did everything herself, even though she only had daughters. Her mantra was that it was her house, she decided to have kids and she didnt want them to be slaves for what she decided. They helped because they wanted to, not because they were forced and I was *super* jealous that she had a mom who didnt ask anything of her.

Point is, yes she should be grateful and show more appreciation and you would like her to do that by helping, but realistically you are the one who is pregnant (and presumably did not ask her permission before becoming so), it is your house and ultimately it is all your responsibility and if your 13 y.o is not interested, is it really worth your time and patience to fight with her?

My mil also raised her kids this way, and it resulted in children who were not ready for marriage. DH had NO sense of reponsibility - even for himself. We have gotten to the point that if HE spills somethinig AND I am not around, then he will clean it up - and that is a lot of progress..... His sister is having an even harder time. Her home is not really functional -and her oldest has responsibilty way beyond her age level. I and my sil's try not to let our kids walk in there (not always easy in the same neighborhood). MIL also believes that children should not have responsibilities. Let me tell you, her gc, mostly, sure do!!!! It's just not fair to tthem or to others around. I see how it affected DH's self esteem - he does not see himself as capable.

spring13

Thu, May 03 2012, 10:01 pm

amother wrote:

The thing is, it's not all your problem. Assuming that you're not making unreasonable demands of her time and capabilities, then the problem does not lie with you or your attitude. If you think her behavior is normal and acceptable, then either you can stop asking her to do things, or tune out the whining and equivocating.

It's just that "a lazy attitude" isn't going to get her anywhere in life. There's being a slavedriver and being a parent. Of course she doesn't want to help out; hardly any teen does. But what she wants to do isn't necessarily what's best for her or for your family. I whined when my mother asked me to do things that I felt were extra, but either I A. made a cogent argument as to why I was not able to do it under the circumstances, B. did it anyway, or C. faced consequences. I don't think expecting her to slice her own apples or make her own lunch is slave-driving. There's a difference between things like that, and things like expecting her to give up all her free time to clean the house or make Shabbos or babysit while you sit around and polish your toenails.

Letting her off the hook every time she hesitates isn't the way to handle it. If she doesn't pick up on cues, then be more straightforward. If she asks a lot of questions, answer them; maybe she just needs more instruction in how to do certain tasks.

Merrymom

Thu, May 03 2012, 10:11 pm

OP, I would really disregard most of the answers here. Most of the people here are young mothers without teenagers, and those with teens have not yet married off their children. They do not realize how this ridiculous, "It was my decision to get pregnant, not hers" kind of attitude is responsible for raising lazy, self- centered, incompetent women. My daughter's school used to forbid giving homework on Thursday nights so that the girls can help their mothers. Now this practice has been abolished as apparently the only one helping out were my daughters. My daughters don't do one tenth of the work I do at home but I certainly have EXPECTATIONS of them. It is not their decision whether they will help or not. They are part of this family and have the benefits that come with it, as well as sharing in the responsibilities. I could get a cleaning woman, I really could. It is my decision not to because when I had one, all my kids became a bunch of dirty, messy, spoiled kids. I want them making their own bed every morning, picking up their clothing, putting away their plates, washing dishes, cleaning the table, making cookies for Shabbos. Are they scrubbing toilets, washing stoves, pots, or cleaning up a sibling's throw up? I don't think so. I do expect that when they get married however, they will be completely self sufficient and not be like a sibling of mine who I had to teach EVERYTHING to when she got married. She was clueless because she never had to do a single thing growing up and it was so much harder for her. Don't accept lazy behavior. Instead give her an allowance that is contigent on her doing her chores. If she gets part of it done then she should get a partial allowance, if she does it all then give her more. If her room is an impossible mess, put everything in garbage bags and tell her whatever isn't put away is going to go down into the basement or be given away because apparently she doesn't really care about it or need it. It is our responsibility as parents to teach or kids organization and cleanliness. I highly recommend that all you mothers get a copy of the show called Hoarders to see what happens when parents have no expectations of their children.

amother

Thu, May 03 2012, 11:18 pm

something here that no one mentioned:

There is a book called "Laws of Nurture". Basically each person requires something else in order to feel loved. Some ppl need gifts, some ppl need to be serviced, some need touch etc...
I find my oldest always asks me to do things for her. Pour her a drink make her a sandwich .. it goes much more than what she is asking, these are small things that she needs in order to feel loved, and yes my younger kids don't ask that of me. I see when I nurture her, she gives back in return!

That being said, I give her "big jobs to do" it has to feel big to her, like a privilege. I will let her put the four yr old to bed. Bake cookies from beginning to end. Things like that and she will gladly do it!