What is considered average Kollel couple support in Israel?

amother

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 12:55 am

How much money do most American girls' parents give their Kollel couples, who reside in Israel, monthly? I've heard of many different amounts depending on means and generosity.

What do you feel is the average, based on what people you know have said they get/give?

amother

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 2:37 am

um, nothing. why is it necc to get support just cuz you are in Israel? If you are big enough to decide to live in EY, you are big enough to figure out how to make it work.

Anon cuz I live in Israel and its none of anyones bus how much I do or don't get from my paretns. I find this kinda offensive!

suomynona

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 2:49 am

The reason it's different is because there's a good chance that the wife won't find a job, and even if she does, it's probably not enough to live on. In America there's a much better chance that the couple can be supported on the woman's salary alone.

I have no idea what people are getting from their parents, I don't think most people discuss it. But around where I live, it must be a lot. Most of the women don't work, rent can be in the range of $1000. That's besides all other expenses. Don't forget plane tickets at least once a year (which comes out very expensive during bein hazmanim season), most people have international health insurance, etc.

amother

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 3:51 am

we dont get monthly support from my parents. they would if we needed it, even tho they dont have a lot and I have a bunch of younger sibling, but I came into the marriage with decent savings, and since it has been my dream to live here for a year (in the end, year and a half) after marriage, I didnt mind if we used it all.
kolel pays a bit, and I do some freelance work, but we splurged on living where we want, not where is cheapest, and we dont go overboard, but dont scrimp either - that will be for the next 40 years...

amother

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 10:12 am

amother wrote:

You don't have to sign your name or you don't have to reply if you feel that way.

The only reason I posted this, is that a relative (girl's parents), of average means, is giving a certain amount and is being called "stingy" by the boy's parents, bec. they say "everyone gives more". (In Litvishe/Yeshivishe circles the girl's parents do the bulk of the supporting).

I , therefore, wanted to get a feel about what others say is average.

amother

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 12:02 pm

My husband and I both wanted to live in Israel when we got married. Both of our parents however, are not wealthy (to put it mildly) and cannot support us at all. After many calculations, we realized and came to terms with the fact that it is a luxury that we just can't have. So, we settled for DH's second best and we are baruch hashem managing nicely in lakewood on my salary alone.

I think it is a lack of hakaras hatov to your parents who raised you to ask for money when there is not much or none at all especially for a luxury.

amother

Sat, Dec 16 2006, 7:44 pm

amother wrote:

I also can't stand people who say "but everyone does..."

Who says EVERYONE does XYZ?

And if so, why do you have to be like e/o? Be your own person! Do things how YOU see fit!

Unfortunately no one can predict, beore going into a Shidduch, if their son in law's parents will criticize them with the "everyone does....", pitting the couple against the girl's parents for not measuring up to other girl's parents. That can be
Crying

very hurtful Crying

to the girl's parents who are doing their best.

There's the behavior/attitude pre-Shidduch and there's the different behavior/attitude post-Shidduch.

Very painful indeed.

amother

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 1:20 am

My husband isn't in kollel but if you don't mind I have some things to say about the whole idea. I agree that it's nice if parents could help out , but if they can't then it is up to the couple to make it on their own. For my own children iy''H, my husband and I would like to try to support them for the first 3 years fully and then a little bit as the years go on. A couple has to learn to make it on their own. Marriage is not an extension of being a child, it implies some independence. Yes it is a privelege to support learning etc. but just b/c I wouldn't give full support after 3 years doesn't mean that I wouldn't buy the kids clothing etc. I would help them buy a home etc. I just think that part of being in kollel is the idea of doing it on your own. By the way, who is going to support the kollel couple's kids when they in turn decide to go into kollel. With all this help that I want to give my kids, I also want to help by putting away for my grandkids iy''H. I hope that Hashem enables me to do what is in my heart. However, in my opinion if the kallah wants to have a husband learn in E"Y she should go to school for something that is marketable in EY and then if possible for the first year alone get supported while she is taking a course to get licensed here in EY. If not supported then work hours 4-12 in IDT etc. which makes decent money and don't insist on living in Yerushalayim !

amother

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 4:03 am

I looked into IDT, even though I would hate making sales, but decided against it because of their hours - most of the shifts include evening or night hours. I have some single friends who do it, and I know some married people do to, but I dont think it is good for any marriage, especially not Shana Rishona. I would never see my husband, spend time with him, go out with him, sit down for meals together - he leaves for kolel early in the morning, 6 days a week, and I would be gone by the time he came home, until at least 11pm. That was not something I was willing to do to my marriage.

shalhevet

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 4:31 am

Why do some kolel couples think that they should be living like a working couple in America on their parents' back?

Very few Israeli kolel couples even dream of living in Yerushalayim (unless their parents are very wealthy), yet many American couples feel it's their right. A 3-room apartment can cost $1000 a month in parts of Yerushalayim, $400 - $500 a month in other cities and even less in more outlying places like Beitar for example. There are other places with English speaking kolelim and I'm sure that if there were more couples willing to move into other areas, more suitable kolelim would open/move.

Israeli kolel couples do not (there are exceptions) live on a standard of going out to eat, ordered in pizza, American clothes and sheitels etc etc, expensive tours and trips. Not only that but in many cases the American kolel wife doesn't work even before she has children. Sometimes it's difficult to find work because of difficulties with language/ qualifications. But sometimes it's just that it's 'not worth it' to earn a relatively small amount when the cheques from chutz la'aretz are in the mail.

I'm sure that lowering the standards as far as gashmius is concerned would not hurt the ruchniyus and would enable many more couples to be in EY and many more parents to breathe a sigh of relief.

happyone

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 10:37 am

If people are getting 2-3,000 for going to Israel, I'll get my husband to go back to kollel and move to Israel!! Maybe my parents will send 3000.00 per month my way!!!
Just kidding, I think it's insane for young couples to expect support. I would love to help my children in any way I can IYH, but it should be an extra bonus, not something a shidduch is dependant on. And not something children or machtonim should be complaining about.
Personally, if someone is serious about learning, they could do it anywhere! Going to Israel is a luxury and couples going should learn to live with less... not expect a fortune from their parents so that they can honeymoon!

amother

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 11:24 am

Normal frum parents in my circles are pressured to do the same as wealthy parents in the community, and made to feel guilty by their children , if they have any savings, to give of it very generously to their learning couples, because it's the parents' z'chus to have such children that desire it.

Often these savings are earmarked for retirement Crying

, and were accumulated as a result of serious budgeting.

Parents are not given the choice, it's something they have to do, for their daughters who went to certain Brooklyn schools.

If the parents voice disapproval of the Kollel lifestyle, they are told, why did you send your daughter to our school? It's as if it's akin to Shmiras Shabbos and not doing it, is akin to being Mechalel Shabbos.

amother

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 2:09 pm

I can only talk for myself. we lived in EY for 2 years. my parents were always for it since we were babies. (actually my parents started off in EY and then came to US because of business issues, they are still dreaming of the day that they can return)
I know that my parents gave us rent (wich was under $1000 in yerushalayim) and more for regular living. (in total about $1500, I don't remember the exact numbers now)

it was still very hard, dh did not get money from kolell because officially my father has money and helps support the kolell so why give dh anything (I just HATE when ppl think they know what someone elses bank account looks like Twisted Evil

)

I tried getting a job (almost impossible to find) I did some english tutoring. doesn't bring in much. but b'h we had a beautiful 2 years of EY experiance. and I still thank my parents for it.

and btw you bet we lived on israely standard, we only had chicken on shabbos, went out to eat VERY seldom, NEVER went shopping for clothes or shoes. (I came home one pesach and shopped for maternity) NEVER had cleaning help, what else?

so it works I think when parents and children want it, not where there is pair pressure. we did it cuz we wanted and it had nothing to do with anyone else.

I hope this gives the OP a bit of information for what she is looking for. but bottom line is, you just gotta do what you can and forget about everyone else who is putting pressure.

amother

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 3:28 pm

Quote:

dh did not get money from kolell because officially my father has money and helps support the kolell so why give dh anything (I just HATE when ppl think they know what someone elses bank account looks like Twisted Evil )

unfortunatley I know the feeling all too well my parents are wealthy but we try to make it on our own and cant cuz kollel wont give us any money they are well paying to everyone else
we are still getting fulls support

amother

Sun, Dec 17 2006, 3:59 pm

My BIL is getting married soon and I know his father and his fil are going to split support of $4000 a month. They will be living here in North America. If they were going straight to Israel (they hope to go soon) then I can't imagine they will give them less than that. Although you probably don't need $4000 a month in Israel.

I think it depends how the couple expects to live. If they expect to live like they would in America then 1000$ a month support is not enough. If they will "rough it" in Israel and never go out or eat meat or anything then they could do with less. But I feel like most American couples won't live like that because they are spoiled. I personally don't think kollel couples who are being supported should live like kings in israel. It's unfair to the parents. And to their older siblings who are NOT being supported have no money for "extras" Smile