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New job offer and current job counteroffer- advice needed
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 6:03 pm
So I am asking all you imamothers for input. People may know my details so I am amother.

When I got married and was still in school, I worked for the yeshiva that my husband was learning in. I was an admin assitant and was there for 1 & 3/4 years. I was VERY happy there. Loved the environment, my boss, the fact that its 2 min away from my apartment. When I finished school with a degree in accounting, I looked for another job, first in accounting and then in bookkeeping.

After a number of months looking, I sent in my resume to a local day school and I was hired. I am the business office- I do the bookkeeping and everything else that needs to be done in the office. (organize the annual dinner, tuition, other secretary type jobs) I am paid low for my job I think (its about $16 an hour) and I have tons of overtime- esp in dinner seasons that I dont get paid extra for, it is part of my salary (working 40 hours a week- but since I get out early for fridays the rest of the 40 hours is made up with overtime during dinner/busy seasons. I have to commute (~40 min round trip). I sometimes get annoyed at my boss. (I vent about work at least once a week at home about him) I do have off for yomim tovim in full and a couple weeks paid vacation... that cannot be taken in July/August (bein hazmanim) cause the dinner season is around then. But over all I am decently happy here.

ANYWAYS, the yeshiva I used to work for now needs a bookkeeper. I applied. I had a couple interviews. They gave me a number. It is more then I make now and they gave me a low number anticipating that the school I work for will give me a counter offer. I will have more bookkeeping and less secretary work there (the yeshiva is MUCH bigger then the school) so the experience is better. the pay is better. it is a 2 min walk from my house, I can take my 2 weeks of vacation in the summer. I loved working there before and while it will be in a different capacity, I will be reporting to the same boss that I got on great with.

I told the school. And they want to know what they can do to keep me. They will match the yeshiva in hours and salary.

But we (we being dh and myself) still think there isnt really a question.

But my conscious or just the piece in me that feels bad says maybe not. My boss thinks the fact that I am here now should be a point.

What do you think. Am I crazy for even considering what my boss is saying? Is this a total no brainer? I would be giving 2+ weeks notice and training in a replacement and even help them find one.

and I dont have a contract (didnt with either place)
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 6:22 pm
I don't really understand your boss. What does the "fact that you are here now" mean? Does he mean by "a point" that you should consider changing jobs as somehow negative in itself?

Changing jobs raises a red flag if you are being fired frequently or are otherwise not stable in your career. In this case, it sounds as though you would be moving to a higher level position. No potential employer in the future should take issue with that.

Currently, you have been underpaid until now, have a longer commute, and are annoyed with your supervisor. Sounds like time to look at all the other job benefits: does either job provide health insurance? If so, at what rates? Is either employer unstable financially? Does either one offer other benefits?

Congratulations on your job offer! You must be quite valuable at work - not too many people have decisions like this to make these days!
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be good




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 6:37 pm
less commute time + expense, less boss aggravation, more convenient vacations and a better atmosphere; vs I work there currently.
hm.
thank your current boss for a great job and learning experience, and tell him this offer works betterfor your life circumstances.
and enjoy!
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Chana Miriam S




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 6:46 pm
Go back to the yeshiva and tell them honestly to make their best offer to you because you are not going to consider any counter offer from the school you are at. If you want to throw in details like more paid vacation or when you take vacation, do it then.

Then, once you have a signed offer, knowing your lowest offer is still better money wise and cost wise ( no commute) and that you were happy there before,

Then, give your notice. Don't accept a counter offer. Dont burn bridges. And go happily on your way. Mazel Tov!
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Fabulous




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 6:47 pm
be good wrote:
less commute time + expense, less boss aggravation, more convenient vacations and a better atmosphere; vs I work there currently.
hm.
thank your current boss for a great job and learning experience, and tell him this offer works betterfor your life circumstances.
and enjoy!


what she said. As well as the previous poster. The boss is basically talking about job loyalty but it's not as if you are not giving notice or leaving a teaching job in middle of the year. You have to look out for you. The job offer sounds MUCH better.
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GreenEyes26




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 6:47 pm
Take the new job! Your boss is just trying to keep you. Who cares "if you're there now"? He's trying to guilt you into staying. A wonderful work environment cannot be overstated. Take your new job at your old location and enjoy! Hatzlacha!
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Mrs Bissli




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 7:08 pm
Ah, the danger of counteroffer!

I had a colleague of mine who was offered a higher salary at a different company. He went back to my employer and our boss promised him a raise. However he got less than the rest of the team (allegedly) at the bonus round the following year.

Also telling your current job that you have another job offer lined up is like telling your partner that you're having an affair (lo aleinu). Even if you decide to stick to the current relation, it will never be the same.

Moral of the story: the current employer may offer seemingly attractive counter-offer. But they often tend to be a temporary sweetener. Sounds like the new job offer at yeshiva gives you better satisfaction.

Loyalty? Remember that quote, "If you want loyalty, hire a dog".
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Tova




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 7:33 pm
GreenEyes26 wrote:
Take the new job! Your boss is just trying to keep you. Who cares "if you're there now"? He's trying to guilt you into staying. A wonderful work environment cannot be overstated. Take your new job at your old location and enjoy! Hatzlacha!


That that that that that!

[I am dealing with this now, but within the same company - switching departments - so these responses are very helpful to me. My pay/benefits/location are the same, but work environment will be much better iy"H.]
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chanahlady




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 07 2012, 9:56 pm
Also, sometimes you have to go with your gut. How do you feel when envisioning yourself at this new job? How do you feel when envisioning yourself staying put? Which one makes you feel more excited and happy?
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curlgirl




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 08 2012, 1:57 am
I would go with the new/ old job- BUT insist on a contract.

Do what's best for you and your family, not some employer!
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amother


 

Post Fri, Jun 08 2012, 11:45 am
OP here. Ok so it def is a no brainer.

my boss is not getting that (or maybe he just doesnt want to lol)

I said even if they match hours and salary (or even exceed salary- tho they cannot afford to by to much) the scale is still weighed in favor of the yeshiva.

There also is a better job security at the yeshiva then at the school. The yeshiva has been around over half a century and has never missed a payroll. The school has been around not even 10 years and I cannot say the same about their payroll.

The only problem (which I didnt write in the first post) is that since the yeshiva and the school both share many donors (live in an OOT community, so many gevirim support both mosdos.) the yeshiva is afraid that certain people that support them and also sit on the board of the school, will be upset at the yeshiva and they cant lose donations because of me.

So they told me to ask permission from the school (in particular the board) to be able to talk to them (so the board members cannot hold a grudge) and as soon as they heard they just want to know what they can do to keep me. They have not given permission yet- tho I think they will. so they offered to match everything (hours and salary) and when I said that its really still not enough for me, my boss doesnt get why not. (or as I said before doesnt want to get it)

when I told him the scale thing he felt that the fact that I am already at the school should be a pro on their side of the scale. but I (and seems like most of you) dont agree.

really there is nothing they can do to keep me. well other then not give me permission- tho technically why would they do that. cause having a disgruntled worker is probably worse then having none (which I think the board members would acknowledge even if boss wont)

and if I were to leave I would do it very mentchlach. help to train, work part time at each place till things get resolved etc (I did the part time at each place for a couple weeks when I moved to my current job)
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chocolate chips




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 08 2012, 1:51 pm
Does the fact that you won't have to travel for 40mins each way not show them one of the strongest points for why you want to go back to the yeshiva?

Work is not about what is good for your boss. If you are not happy in your work place then you won't perform your best and it is not good for the workplace. Tell your current boss you understand why he wants you to stay and you feel honored but the fact that you are so tired when you arrive from travelling, the fact that you once worked there and you were happy coupled with the fact that they have not paid you overtime and have taken advantage of you (which is what it sounds like to me) all points to the decision that you want to take the yeshiva job.
Tell him you do not expect him to take any "revenge" in any way on the yeshiva because he can easily find another accountant/secretary and this is about what is good for you!

at the end of the day it is your life, your job. YOU have to be happy. If you are not happy at work, it can affect everything in your life including your marriage (trust me, btdt!)
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ElTam




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 08 2012, 2:05 pm
I would be very professional and just say, "I very much appreciate the counteroffer, but this isn't about money." (Even if it is, as well as work environment.) "I'm sure you can understand, current boss; I can't put a price on the additional 40 minutes a day with my family and not spent commuting. I have been so privileged to have had the opportunity to work here, and I appreciate your counteroffer, but I can't accept. I will do my utmost to make the transition easy for you. I am available until (name a date) to work part-time to help train my replacement." Make sure you nail that date down. I would put it in writing.

If you are ready to leave, you shouldn't discuss counteroffers. It just leads to bad blood, IMHO.
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happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 10 2012, 12:35 am
To me it's a no brainer! Nothing like a job with no commute, vacation time, and a good boss.
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 10 2012, 12:54 am
amother wrote:
OP here. Ok so it def is a no brainer.

my boss is not getting that (or maybe he just doesnt want to lol)

I said even if they match hours and salary (or even exceed salary- tho they cannot afford to by to much) the scale is still weighed in favor of the yeshiva.

There also is a better job security at the yeshiva then at the school. The yeshiva has been around over half a century and has never missed a payroll. The school has been around not even 10 years and I cannot say the same about their payroll.

The only problem (which I didnt write in the first post) is that since the yeshiva and the school both share many donors (live in an OOT community, so many gevirim support both mosdos.) the yeshiva is afraid that certain people that support them and also sit on the board of the school, will be upset at the yeshiva and they cant lose donations because of me.

So they told me to ask permission from the school (in particular the board) to be able to talk to them (so the board members cannot hold a grudge) and as soon as they heard they just want to know what they can do to keep me. They have not given permission yet- tho I think they will. so they offered to match everything (hours and salary) and when I said that its really still not enough for me, my boss doesnt get why not. (or as I said before doesnt want to get it)

when I told him the scale thing he felt that the fact that I am already at the school should be a pro on their side of the scale. but I (and seems like most of you) dont agree.

really there is nothing they can do to keep me. well other then not give me permission- tho technically why would they do that. cause having a disgruntled worker is probably worse then having none (which I think the board members would acknowledge even if boss wont)

and if I were to leave I would do it very mentchlach. help to train, work part time at each place till things get resolved etc (I did the part time at each place for a couple weeks when I moved to my current job)


I'm not sure I understand the bolded part nor why it's YOUR job to smooth possible ruffled feathers.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 10 2012, 1:13 am
the general rule is to never accept a counteroffer from your current employer.

reasons being:

1) they will view you as someone not dedicated to the company.

2) they will like you less then before.

3) if they are downsizing- you will be the first they let go for the two reasons mentioned above

4) they might increase your salary and benefits now in order to keep you but you will pay for it in the future as they will see it as having just given you a raise.

5) you will lose whatever new opportunity you were offered at the new company.
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Justlookup




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jun 10 2012, 7:23 am
If at the yeshiva you're strictly doing bookkeeping and not their dinner, tuition and whatnot like at the school, I don't see why u would need to be in touch personally with the gevirim to begin with?
That's (the part that the yeshiva might be upset to loose donors bec of you) would be the only thing to concern me, in ur position. Otherwise, do as everyone said, take the yeshiva job, leave mentchlichly (even though They might not behave mentchlichly back bec they resent that ur leaving), and things will smooth put with time...
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busydev




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2012, 10:46 am
I will not be in touch with the gevirim.

The problem is that now I do some work that certain gevirim who are on the board like. They are happy with what I have done in the office.

The yeshiva wanted those gevirim to understand that I applied there, not that the yeshiva came after me. (one is me looking for another job, one is yeshiva stealing me from school) If yeshiva would "steal" me then the board members may hold a grudge.

While my boss doesnt get it (or want to), I think the board members do. When my boss spoke to the main one they are worried about he said "well we cant move her house"

I should be getting "permission" soon since all the board members seem to understand this and my boss finally asked me to write up instructions on running the office (daily, weekly, monthly tasks)

It really is a no brainer and dh and I are both getting pretty excited about the pending switch


Last edited by busydev on Mon, Jun 11 2012, 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 11 2012, 10:48 am
b'Hatzlacha and may you only have mazal with the new job.
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joyma10




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jun 27 2017, 3:55 am
Change is always empowering. You will only benefit.
BEHATZLACHA!
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