secular society promotes small families

stem

Sun, May 08 2005, 4:12 pm

Quote:

isnt it great that Hashem outlawed birth control as a general rule??????? if we would b allowed to have our children based on when we felt "ready" (I.e. money, maturity, stability, etc...) I think the jewish poplulation would b practically extinct by now.

I am not advocating birth control, but...
The Jewish people would never be extict because of birth control. The proof is that Jewish people use and have used birthcontrol for many centuries, and here we are...

Also, within the guidelines, isn't there something to say about children being raised in a stable home where the parents are ready and able to raise them. Again, I am not advocating birthcontrol.

roza

Sun, May 08 2005, 11:03 pm

Motek wrote:

if secular society promotes large families, then how come mothers on this forum were told about birth control by their doctors after having a baby, without asking for information about it (and at least one mother was told, all the frum women are using it Rolling Eyes

)

society doesn't promote any concrete size, small or big.
doctors are in business of offering their products and services. after you finish with one service, they offer you other services. if they know beforehand that you are against birth control then, they would not offer it to you. ask your doctor if they offer birth control because of social reasons or monetary reasons.
What

roza

Sun, May 08 2005, 11:19 pm

Motek wrote:

roza wrote:

many non jews here have 3 and more children.

what's their ethnic group/religion?

Quote:

the thread is not about how US population grows, but about if the society promotes small families?

don't the two go hand-in-hand?

Quote:

the fact that americans have 2-3 kids is because they can't afford to have more or can't manage more. so it's natural process and not because of promotion.

can you back that up?

I am not talking about mexicans, who have so many children that make me jealous. yes catolics and mormons also have large families, as well as homeschoolers, stay at home moms.
I am talking about average american heimisher family-3-4 and more kids is common.

population growth in US can be slow due to large number of divorces which is another problem.
but those families with family values have quite a number of children.

the story mentioned on this forum http://www.imamother.com/forum.....=1957
speaks volumes. the story took place in my state btw.

I don't feel that ppl give me 'looks' in such society. I homeschooled for 7 years and felt 'normal' shleping around all my kids .

all the above are just my personal observations and experiences. I understand that it's not so in other places and societies.

supermom

Mon, May 09 2005, 3:42 am

[/quote]doctors are in business of offering their products and services. after you finish with one service, they offer you other services. if they know beforehand that you are against birth control then, they would not offer it to you. [/quote]

my doctor when saw that I had a tefilat haderech if the lubavitcher rebbe on it he told me that he knows a lot of lubavitchers and that he won't ask me to do anything that he knows that is against our belief. so I have to agree with you. if your doctor knows in advance that a person does not want to use birth control he won't ask you later on if you want to use birth control.

Motek

Mon, May 09 2005, 8:02 am

Quote:

the story mentioned on this forum http://www.imamother.com/forum.....=1957
speaks volumes. the story took place in my state btw.

it's a great story but what makes you mention it here? The surrogate mother has two children, and the parents of the multiples were only trying for one child!

Rivka

Mon, May 09 2005, 3:30 pm

Also when you are pregnant with medical help such as they use for people who find it very hard to have children and for people acting as surrogates, they most commonly have more than 2 children.

RG about your family "friend" dentist. Doesn't sound much of a friend to me if he embrassed u all the time like that.
I think out of all religions not promoting bc Judaism is the only one with loopholes. Catholics do not get loopholes and neither do Muslims.
Some of them use it regardless, whereas in Judaism there are loopholes and so a woman is more likley to ask halachic guidance on the use of it.

MatzosMama

Mon, Jun 13 2005, 11:40 pm

[quote="roza"]

Quote:

Now, I have a question- does the secular society promotes small families?
From my observation- it doesn't. What do you think? ( I am asking about usa society in particular)

yes yes yes!!!! My mother is a big supporter of this( she is a Luthern but Jewish by blood).....I am always being told that we don't make enough to support more than 2 kids. Well as it were, we would love to have more....and G-d willing we will when the time is right.

I think that this is a political thing. There are so many families out there that are on wellfare and living on tax payer monies, that to have a large family is somthing of a taboo. I don't understand it, but I don't think that I as one person can change it.

If you look to the western states, you will see alot of familys that are huge, granted that they follow the Morman faith and there are some parts of this faith that supprots plural marriages. These families can run into the hundreds. They are the exception not the norm.

chavamom

Tue, Jun 14 2005, 10:37 pm

Rivka wrote:

The jewish frum communities most families have more than 2 kids. They have 3-4 or even 5 or 6. The extremly frum have more than that.

Oh my! Alert the neighbors and stop the press. I'm *extremely* frum. LOL

Sorry, I just got a laugh out of that. Carry on.

RachelB

Sun, Jun 19 2005, 3:41 am

I think that having children later in life also has something to do with the family size. Many women (in metro areas at least) don't think about "starting a family" until they are 35-37 years old and have a well established career. My OBGYN told me that pregnancy after 35 puts the baby and mother at "unnecessary" risk (tell it to a friend of mine who had her 13th child at 41 :-)

When was the last time you saw a family with 3 (or more) kids in a car/cellphone/grocery commercial? The "normal" family is Mom/Dad/Boy/Girl, right? Isn't TV the most powerful tool in shaping populations' views and opinions?
And yes, I was offered birth control and was told about the dangers of getting pregnant while nursing by my Dr. (we live in an Orthodox neighborhood), and I assume that my Dr. had my "best interests" in mind-time get back into shape, etc.