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Shiva call for my ex Dh's wife
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 11:32 am
My ex DH's wife's mother just passed away (did you follow that?). They live 45 minutes away from me with no traffic. My kids have a good relationship with his wife (their step mother) and knew her mother and liked her as well. My teenage dd especially would like to make a shiva call. Their father says he can not come to get them to take them to make the shiva call. So a few questions here:

-Whos job is it to take the kids to pay the shiva call? Mine, or their fathers?
-Are the kids even supposed to/expected to go?
-Am I supposed to/expected to go?
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 11:36 am
If you can, I would take them.

In this case, it has to do with something your kids want to do. Your ex Dh is probably supporting his new wife in this hard time.

I would think they are expected to go, as they have a relationship with her. I don't think you are obligated, but once you are there dropping the kids off I would go (unless your divorce is not civil).
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 11:39 am
I don't think you have to go but you should probably take the kids. I.e. you can drop them off and pick them up. It makes sense that it is too difficult for him to leave home for those few hours to drive them back and forth.
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 11:41 am
The kids certainly should go.

If their father cannot take them, you can put your differences aside for a little bit and take them yourself.

You are probably not expected to go, but you could if you have a functioning relationship with their father and his wife. If it would be exceptionally awkward, just drop off the kids and come back later.
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harriet




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 11:59 am
Of course the kids should go, but unless you are close with the new wife, you should NOT go. My friends who are second wives would NOT appreciate a shiva call from their DH's first wife. Unless you think she truly would want you there, don't go! Can you drop off the kids and go shopping nearby or something like that?
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 12:03 pm
1. Unless you and the bereaved have an unusually amicable relationship, your going would be awkward at best. It's highly unlikely that anyone expects you to go, and if you and the bereaved are just civil, your presence may be resented rather than appreciated. Your ex would be the person to ask.

2. Children don't usually pay shiva visits. There's nothing wrong with it but unless the bereaved is the child's friend or a very close relative, people tend to want to "protect" children from the spectre of death. Teenagers are old enough to go and should go if they get along well with their stepparent. Since your dd knew and liked the bereaved, that's even more reason why she should go.

3. Physical distance is an issue. If you would drive 45 minutes to pay a shiva visit to a casual friend
and your visit would be appreciated, then go if you can. Otherwise, don't.

4. It isn't anyone's formal "responsibility" to transport your dd, as this isn't custodial visitation. Since the visit is for the benefit of your ex's wife, it really should be your ex who transports his dd; however, if he's on door-answering/phone-answering/food-preparing duty while his wife is sitting shiva, then he clearly can't spend three or more hours playing chauffeur.

Again I think it boils down to your relationship with your ex's wife. Your going out of your way to be menachem avel or to make it possible for your dd to be menachem avel would be excellent chinuch for your dd, but it's not yehareg ve'al yaavor. If you can manage it, great; if not, your dd can be menachem avel over the phone. This much is a minimum.
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MiamiMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 12:59 pm
I think when your kids want to do such a good, right, menchlich thing you should do whatever you can to help them.

What a great opportunity you have here.....
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black sheep




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 1:01 pm
I would only take the kids if they are over bar/bas mitzvah. and I would tell you not to go in yourself unless you are very close to her.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 3:03 pm
duplilcate post

Last edited by watergirl on Fri, Dec 28 2012, 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 3:57 pm
What does the dad say? Call him & make honest offer to bring the kids. Whether you go in or not you can figure out based on response when you get there. You can always go in just say hamakom[I] when you get the kids. Or not, just set time to pick up. The opportunity won't come back again for kids, especially teen who asked to go. Don't know how well they knew step-grandma but been to many shiva houses where elementary age grandchildren were present.
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ElTam




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 4:49 pm
They could also call on the phone to be menachem avel.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 5:35 pm
Is it too late? Try to take them tonight. Yes, this will be tough on your kids not to have a grownup with them to mentor them through a shiva visit but this is such a win-win all around, in so may ways. In fact, you might even have them bring in a brief written note from you saying that you're sorry for her loss.

I don't know what it takes to get to this point, but when divorced parents act in the best interests of the kids, the kids can turn out exceptionally healthy. Don't make excessive cheshbonos over which of you has the responsibility to pull this off.

Don't beat yourself up if you can't do it, I don't know what your schedule is. But if you CAN'T do it tonight, have your kids call and it wouldn't hurt for them to tell her that you were sorry circumstances didn't allow you to do an in person visit.

I really believe you will see great bracha from doing this.
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zaq




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 5:54 pm
BTW it's awfully impressive that your teen dd WANTS to pay a shiva call. You should be proud whether or not she ends up being able to go.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 8:19 pm
zaq wrote:
BTW it's awfully impressive that your teen dd WANTS to pay a shiva call. You should be proud whether or not she ends up being able to go.


And you should be proud not just of her but of yourself for fostering such a climate.
(To others in similar situations: I realize it's not always desirable or feasible but if it is, life is definitely more pleasant.)
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amother


 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 9:05 pm
I encourage you to do it. There is potential benefit for your ex-husband and his wife and this is a chesed on your part. There is potential benefit for your kids (the ones who are old enough to understand nichum aveilim). And there is potential benefit for you - your kids will remember that you overcame your differences with your ex enough to support his family when needed and enough to do what's in the kids' interest even though it's not technically your obligation.

I was involved in a similar situation, though it was for a simcha. It was to everyone's benefit that both sides worked together.

Please let us know how it turned out. It would give chizuk to a lot of families in similar situations to see that things turned out well.
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Barbara




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 27 2012, 9:54 pm
amother wrote:
My ex DH's wife's mother just passed away (did you follow that?). They live 45 minutes away from me with no traffic. My kids have a good relationship with his wife (their step mother) and knew her mother and liked her as well. My teenage dd especially would like to make a shiva call. Their father says he can not come to get them to take them to make the shiva call. So a few questions here:

-Whos job is it to take the kids to pay the shiva call? Mine, or their fathers?
-Are the kids even supposed to/expected to go?
-Am I supposed to/expected to go?


BDE.

(1) There is no "supposed to" as to who takes the kids on a shiva call. In this case, though, it would involve your ex-DH driving at least 3 hours, when he should probably be with his wife. I'd say that you should do it.

(2) Are the kids supposed to/expected to go? Absolutely. For better or for worse, this is a woman who has had a role in parenting your children, and who will have a role in parenting them in the future. Are you remarried? If so, and your husband was in mourning, wouldn't you expect your kids to make a shiva call? Well, same thing here.

(3) Are you supposed to go? Your call. If the relationship is civil, you could drop the kids, then come back after some period of time and go in yourself. At most, you could say that your children were fond of her, and she must have been a very special woman. Stay 3 minutes. Leave with the kids
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 28 2012, 8:22 am
Yes, OP, we're all curious, our inquiring minds want to know ;-)
But you still have the right not to share.
I just want to say that this thread was a breath of fresh air. Kol hakavod to you and all the grownups involved (including the nifteres) for doing right by these kids. If you didn't make it last night, there's still ample time for meaningful gestures, conversation, etc.
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 28 2012, 8:34 am
zaq wrote:
3. Physical distance is an issue. If you would drive 45 minutes to pay a shiva visit to a casual friend and your visit would be appreciated, then go if you can. Otherwise, don't.

Again I think it boils down to your relationship with your ex's wife. Your going out of your way to be menachem avel or to make it possible for your dd to be menachem avel would be excellent chinuch for your dd, but it's not yehareg ve'al yaavor. If you can manage it, great; if not, your dd can be menachem avel over the phone. This much is a minimum.


Sorry, but I'm going to disagree with this. IMO, this isn't about the ex-wife, it's about the daughter. She had a relationship with the step-mother's mother and she'll continue to have a relationship with the step-mother (obviously).

First and foremost the daughter WANTS to go. So I would take her and if my presence would cause problems, I'd either go right back home and pick up the daughter in 2 hours or 5 hours or whenever. Or visit the nearby mall.

My second point is there are some people and some relationships that 'keep score'. My aunt has that personality. My ex-husband as well. Slights (real and imagined) were noted and remarked upon and rehashed and rarely forgotten. My ex-husband's second wife did it with our daughters as well.
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freidasima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Dec 28 2012, 8:35 am
Pink, Barbara after what you both wrote so well I have nothing to add but "like like like".
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amother


 

Post Fri, Dec 28 2012, 9:25 am
OP here. Yeah... I didnt go. Today is her last day of shiva and I guess each day I came up with a different reason why I couldnt take the kids. Truth is... I dont know why I didnt go. You all had great points though.
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